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I'll let someone else dig up the statistics for a change, but subjectively I feel safer from gun violence in Hawai'i than I have anywhere else I've lived, and I've lived all over the US. In Chicago the sound of gunfire at night was unmistakable, and frequent, and on one occasion I found two bullet holes in my car fender in the morning. In LA I found a spent bullet on my front sidewalk one morning, and found that two neighbors had been shot during the night. In Seattle a 15 year old girl was killed by a 16 year old boy in a drive-by just a few blocks from where I lived. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
On the Big Island, however, I occasionally hear gunshots during the day, never at night, and it's always just pig hunters in the Ollala Forest. And that's it.
No convenience store clerks shooting at a kid stealing a suitcase of beer and killing him... like Austin. No liquor store clerks getting blown away by armed robbers... like everywhere. Gun use of any kind is rare enough that someone even threatening someone else with a gun is front page headline material, because it just doesn't happen very often.
I'll let someone else dig up the statistics for a change, but subjectively I feel safer from gun violence in Hawai'i than I have anywhere else I've lived, and I've lived all over the US. In Chicago the sound of gunfire at night was unmistakable, and frequent, and on one occasion I found two bullet holes in my car fender in the morning. In LA I found a spent bullet on my front sidewalk one morning, and found that two neighbors had been shot during the night. In Seattle a 15 year old girl was killed by a 16 year old boy in a drive-by just a few blocks from where I lived. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
On the Big Island, however, I occasionally hear gunshots during the day, never at night, and it's always just pig hunters in the Ollala Forest. And that's it.
No convenience store clerks shooting at a kid stealing a suitcase of beer and killing him... like Austin. No liquor store clerks getting blown away by armed robbers... like everywhere. Gun use of any kind is rare enough that someone even threatening someone else with a gun is front page headline material, because it just doesn't happen very often.
Overwelmingly, the enviable murder and violent crime rates in Hawaii are due, and this is not particularly PC, to demographics, just like in Idaho, Iowa, Utah etc. The groups that commit those crimes at greatly accellerated rates, are conspiccuoulsly absent in those areas, and conspicuously present in the areas with high crime rates.
Hmm, flying the flag pictured below might be more effective than the U.S. flag in certain parts of the Big Island...
When prospective preps see that flag they think to themselves that the occupants are far more likely to be Native Hawaiians that are already pissed off and have little compunction about pounding unwelcome visitors to a pulp.
Overwelmingly, the enviable murder and violent crime rates in Hawaii are due, and this is not particularly PC, to demographics, just like in Idaho, Iowa, Utah etc. The groups that commit those crimes at greatly accellerated rates, are conspiccuoulsly absent in those areas, and conspicuously present in the areas with high crime rates.
This is so wrong-minded it barely merits a reply. Men killing their girlfriends in a jealous rage, men killing their wives in custody disputes, men killing themselves with a gun while depressed (10x as often as women, btw)... these are not members of any identifiable groups... these happen within every demographic.
Hawai'i has far less "gun culture" than most of the mainland, fewer guns per capita, closer regulations of the guns that are here, limited supply points to buy ammunition, which is very expensive, and the violence that does occur tends more to be of the fistfight variety than anything else.
Nothing is a panacea for the issue, but the Hawaiian approach seems to be the most reasonable model, and the most effective in use in our country. I think it will get a lot of attention in months to come.
This is so wrong-minded it barely merits a reply. Men killing their girlfriends in a jealous rage, men killing their wives in custody disputes, men killing themselves with a gun while depressed (10x as often as women, btw)... these are not members of any identifiable groups... these happen within every demographic.
Hawai'i has far less "gun culture" than most of the mainland, fewer guns per capita, closer regulations of the guns that are here, limited supply points to buy ammunition, which is very expensive, and the violence that does occur tends more to be of the fistfight variety than anything else.
Nothing is a panacea for the issue, but the Hawaiian approach seems to be the most reasonable model, and the most effective in use in our country. I think it will get a lot of attention in months to come.
Hawaii's approach has really no impact. Criminals, by their nature, are, well, criminals. They don't even KNOW the law, much less CARE about it, or have any intention to OBEY it.
Facts are stubborn things, even the ones that are less-than-PC.
Gun Culture and high crime are not connected, except in an inverse way, i.e. places with prevelant private gun ownership by non-criminals (including CCW issuances) resulting from less-strident gun laws, have lower crime rates.
The issue isn't really in quesiton, it is a well-settled issue - except as a political football. FBI stats prove it, studies by crminologists, such are Gary Keck, prove it.
Hawaii's approach has really no impact. Criminals, by their nature, are, well, criminals. They don't even KNOW the law, much less CARE about it, or have any intention to OBEY it.
The fallacy in that thinking is that the vast majority of gun deaths occur at the hands of people who are otherwise not criminals and have no previous criminal record before they pull that trigger that one fateful time in a moment of rage or depression or other fleeting emotion. The enormous gun issue in this country... over 30,000 deaths from gunshots a year and rising... is not primarily a matter of what criminals do, and is not a matter of what "other people" do. As Pogo famously said, "We have seen the enemy, and it is us."
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Facts are stubborn things, even the ones that are less-than-PC.
I agree, and one fact I have great respect for is that modern science says there is really no such thing as race. We're all a single race, all related, and all descended from the same ancestors. Our differences are superficial, merely skin deep, and are not worth wasting any more breath over.
Another fact is that Hawai'i has the most diverse mix of ethnic heritages of any state in the US, and also enjoys the least cultural turmoil between those of different ethnic identities. I think that's another area where Hawai'i has a model other states should follow.
That's why we really don't like outsiders coming in and stirring the pot about problems we really don't have.
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The issue isn't really in quesiton, it is a well-settled issue - except as a political football. FBI stats prove it, studies by crminologists, such are Gary Keck, prove it.
Actually, the man's name is Kleck, and his methodology and studies and conclusions have all been very thoroughly discredited to all but true believers.
In any case, if you go to the Politics and Other Controversies forum you can discuss your views to your heart's content.
The fallacy in that thinking is that the vast majority of gun deaths occur at the hands of people who are otherwise not criminals and have no previous criminal record before they pull that trigger that one fateful time in a moment of rage or depression or other fleeting emotion. The enormous gun issue in this country... over 30,000 deaths from gunshots a year and rising... is not primarily a matter of what criminals do, and is not a matter of what "other people" do. As Pogo famously said, "We have seen the enemy, and it is us."
I agree, and one fact I have great respect for is that modern science says there is really no such thing as race. We're all a single race, all related, and all descended from the same ancestors. Our differences are superficial, merely skin deep, and are not worth wasting any more breath over.
Another fact is that Hawai'i has the most diverse mix of ethnic heritages of any state in the US, and also enjoys the least cultural turmoil between those of different ethnic identities. I think that's another area where Hawai'i has a model other states should follow.
That's why we really don't like outsiders coming in and stirring the pot about problems we really don't have.
Actually, the man's name is Kleck, and his methodology and studies and conclusions have all been very thoroughly discredited to all but true believers.
In any case, if you go to the Politics and Other Controversies forum you can discuss your views to your heart's content.
I can see facts and truth are wasted on you, so I will expend niether in any further discussions. You are right on one thing, however, his name. Have a great delusion.
At an average in the US of over 30 firearms homicides per day, I hope we can agree that is over 30 per day to many.
In under 1 week, the US has more firearm homicides than the UK has in an entire year. Just the city of Chicago, where I am originally from, will have over 3X the the firearm homicides than the UK has in a single year.
Our differences are superficial, merely skin deep, and are not worth wasting any more breath over.
Another fact is that Hawai'i has the most diverse mix of ethnic heritages of any state in the US, and also enjoys the least cultural turmoil between those of different ethnic identities. I think that's another area where Hawai'i has a model other states should follow.
That's why we really don't like outsiders coming in and stirring the pot about problems we really don't have..
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Originally Posted by whtviper1
Just the city of Chicago, where I am originally from, will have over 3X the the firearm homicides than the UK has in a single year.
You're right but Hawaii does not have a huge inner city gang drug problems that cities like Chicago deal with. Export this criminal crowd to Hawaii or the UK and watch the murder rate climb. Demographics does play a major factor in murders, it's just not PC to talk about it.
BTW, murders are half what they were 20 years ago and decreasing in almost every major city except Chicago. Must be because of their very restrictive gun laws.
I'll let someone else dig up the statistics for a change, but subjectively I feel safer from gun violence in Hawai'i than I have anywhere else I've lived, and I've lived all over the US. In Chicago the sound of gunfire at night was unmistakable,
I suspect that the level of safety in Hawaii is much more a function of the fact that you live in a very small community. There is no town on the island of Hawaii that even approaches the size of Chicago. Really, it's not on to compare the crime rates in Volcano to the crime rates of Chicago.
I live in a small community and there are never any murders by gun, and very rarely any murders of any kind. I'd be surprised if there are 3 families in the entire county that don't have a gun. This is cowboy country and everybody hunts. Most families also have bows that will easily kill a human, but nobody is ever murdered by arrow, either.
The lack of murder rate here has zero to do with the number of guns, it is because there is a smallish population and your neighbors will still step up to help you and come to your aid in a sticky situation. You don't get that in any of the mega-cities.
Do you even know, Open D, how many families in Volcano own a gun?
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