Black people in Birmingham (purchase, high school, college)

[aturner339]

I can understand why the "blank slate" approach to the issue can be satisfying or even empowering.

The trouble is that it fails to grapple with the very tangible nature of the economic problem.

[JS20000]

Well, what's the answer?

[aturner339]

Do what works elsewhere. The US has lower levels of economic mobility that just about every other developed country.

This is likely because we have something of a complex about provide the poor with heavy monetary support.

In Denmark they just give people the money and skip the hoops And hurdles.

The result is some of the highest levels of income mobility in the world.

[JS20000]

I wanted it to come out of your keyboard: the whole "we should be more like Scandinavia" argument. Interesting that you highlight Denmark as a standout case of an economy doing all the right things-does this appear to be a "model" economy? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/wo...o-a-fault.html . The Scandinavian nations are amongst the most overburdened and overtaxed regions in the first world, with only Volvos and Ikea furniture to show for it.

In Denmark they just give people the money and skip the hoops And hurdles.

You actually believe it is beneficial to the person to just give them money for just breathing and holding a residence in your country? How does that foster innovation? How does that foster productivity? How does that bolster self-pride? In what way are you helping that person for the long term? It [free money] fosters complacency, idleness and indolence. Where is that "free money" going to come from when the working stiffs finally get the message and stop contributing to the "wealth distributor"? This type of economic model is not sustainable; it will eventually implode.

[Tourian]

It is so easy to pick apart welfare when you are against it. I try to be fair and relate to both sides but I hate the ultra conservative argument against because everytime I see someone get entrenched about wanting to do away with it, they always use black people as examples of the system gone wrong. Youll never see Rusty and Heather in the trailer park making meth as the poster of welfare abuse it is always Shanequa in the hood with her five kids.

First lets get rid of the drugs. I mean really. No more BS. Make weed legal. Put the national guard on the mexican border and the coast guard in the gulf so they can guard our borders. Crazy idea, right? No more coke and heroine getting in.

Then you can use all the money you save on fighting and incarcerating people over petty drug charges on neighborhood programs designed to put inner city people to work.

but that wont happen. Theres a system in place designed to destroy the poor and under privileged and the people in power who profit from it dont want it to change.

[aturner339]

Economics isn't a morality play. It is not a tool to encourage self pride. (Not that I think the Scandinavians suffer from a lack of pride mind you)

It is a tool to enhance human well being. And enhancing the well being of the poor by governmental aid works quite well. There are not hordes of lazy couch potatoes staving to death in Sweden.

I know that it drives many Americans crazy to think that making people's lives easier could possibly be a good thing. The idea of redemptive suffering is deeply embedded in our national consciousness.
But this isn't really that hard. We've already seen how to deal with poverty.

All we need is the desire to correct the problem.

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by Tourian

It is so easy to pick apart welfare when you are against it. I try to be fair and relate to both sides but I hate the ultra conservative argument against because everytime I see someone get entrenched about wanting to do away with it, they always use black people as examples of the system gone wrong. Youll never see Rusty and Heather in the trailer park making meth as the poster of welfare abuse it is always Shanequa in the hood with her five kids.

First lets get rid of the drugs. I mean really. No more BS. Make weed legal. Put the national guard on the mexican border and the coast guard in the gulf so they can guard our borders. Crazy idea, right? No more coke and heroine getting in.

Then you can use all the money you save on fighting and incarcerating people over petty drug charges on neighborhood programs designed to put inner city people to work.

but that wont happen. Theres a system in place designed to destroy the poor and under privileged and the people in power who profit from it dont want it to change.

I could be wrong , but I am fairly sure you spelled Shaniqqua's name wrong. How's that girl doin' anyway.

Later,
raj

[JS20000]

I try to be fair and relate to both sides but I hate the ultra conservative argument against because everytime I see someone get entrenched about wanting to do away with it, they always use black people as examples of the system gone wrong.

Interesting how you seem to have me all figured out ("conservative"-yeah, right). Anyway, I've said my piece so anything more would be reiterations. I'm out of here; go grab more reps for saying what people want to hear.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by JS20000

Interesting how you seem to have me all figured out ("conservative"-yeah, right). Anyway, I've said my piece so anything more would be reiterations. I'm out of here; go grab more reps for saying what people want to hear.

I was not saying you specifically. However, we are in a thread about Black people. And now were talking about poor black people on welfare. It goes this way every time in my experience.

[aturner339]

Pretty much. That is the flip side to discussing black people in Birmingham or anywhere in America for that matter.

We aren't the same nation we used to be in terms of racism but the echoes of our old belief system are still heard.

The assumption of black pathology is a foundational part of our public policy debates. It's Dubois' old question again.

"How does it feel to be a problem"

(Again this is not a stated or implied accusation of bigotry.)