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swf, turning 28 by the time I graduate and move. I am considering a move to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and DC. Can anyone here give some insight on if Boston would or would not be a good place to go? I'm MOSTLY considering only Boston and NYC and I know in a way it's comparing apples and oranges as far as size is concerned. I don't care about nightclubs/bars so that's not an issue. I'm sure Boston doesn't have close to the number of bars as NYC but I'm sure it has enough for me! Aside from the size of the city, I'm also looking into the friendliness, convenience, cost, and culture of the city. I've visited Boston before and didn't perceive it to be like San Francisco as far as amount of weirdness present, am I right? (loved SF, just can't live there) Any advice is appreciated.
swf, turning 28 by the time I graduate and move. I am considering a move to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and DC. Can anyone here give some insight on if Boston would or would not be a good place to go? I'm MOSTLY considering only Boston and NYC and I know in a way it's comparing apples and oranges as far as size is concerned. I don't care about nightclubs/bars so that's not an issue. I'm sure Boston doesn't have close to the number of bars as NYC but I'm sure it has enough for me! Aside from the size of the city, I'm also looking into the friendliness, convenience, cost, and culture of the city. I've visited Boston before and didn't perceive it to be like San Francisco as far as amount of weirdness present, am I right? (loved SF, just can't live there) Any advice is appreciated.
BOS vs NYC.
BOS: costs less, has less, is less friendly, maybe be more comfy, is prettier, easier, more conservative.
NYC, bigger, more $$$, has more of everything in every category, harder, faster, and much much more.
NYC is the capital of the world.
BOS, CHI, everyplace else is just 2nd best.
Why settle for 2nd best? Live in NYC, visit BOS on a weekend. So much more to learn and experience there.
Some good points by Bostonian08, but here are some points to consider further:
quote, Bostonian08: BOS: costs less, has less, is less friendly, maybe be more comfy, is prettier, easier, more conservative. [quote]
Boston: ". . . cots less . . . :" Make sure not to get the idea that Boston is cheap. These are two of the most expensive cities in the country. As expensive as Boston is, though, NYC is even worse. Since you (LinkBR) will have just finished school and are young, it's possible that you may be on a tight budget. If so, you really need to consider that factor in deciding whether to live in either of these cities, but Boston is somewhat less outrageously expensive than NYC.
". . . is less friendly . . . :" I've heard people say that New Yorkers don't deserve their hard-nosed reputation. My observations have been different. In my experience, I've met all kinds of individuals everywhere I've been, but I've also noticed that somehow the way it all adds up--the way the people are in general--does vary from place to place. I've found that people in both Boston and NYC are collectively kind of hurried and pushy, but that as individuals they can be quite friendly in both cities, especially in more intimate settings, for example if you deal with clerks in small neighborhood stores, or you become a regular customer in a restaurant and the staff gets to know you. If you're from the South, the Midwest, or the interior West--any of the regions that Northeast and West Coast people tend to view with some disdain as backward and unsophisticated--be warned that in either of these cities people will think nothing of putting down the area where you're from, even to your face. This attitude is prevalent in Boston, but I think you'd find it to be even worse in NY.
". . . is more conservative . . . :" That depends on how you define "conservative." Bostonians tend to be in love with old traditions. There is also an insular mentality in a lot of the outlying sections of Boston, with people tending to give a cold shoulder to those who come from outside the local neigh-buh-hood. On the other hand, the record speaks for itself if you're talking strictly about politics: Boston's voting patterns are about as blue as it gets. It really depends on what attitudes stand out for you in your perception of how "conservative" or "progressive" a place is.
By the way, speaking of politics and attitudes, what you said about Boston's having less "weirdness" than SF is probably true. Boston was pretty "weird" in the '70's, and to judge from what I've heard, in the '60's as well, but now you'll more likely find pockets or "weirdness" rather than finding that a "weird" attitude pervades the entire city.
Quote, Bostonian08: NYC, bigger, more $$$, has more of everything in every category, harder, faster, and much much more. [quote]
This includes more hustle and bustle and traffic and crowding. Not that these don't exist in Boston, but in NYC you really get the extreme. It's a given that those who crave the most intense urban experience should choose NYC over any other American city, but for many, Boston strikes a nice balance between offering plenty and having a less frenetic pace.
Something worth noting, however, is that public transit in NYC runs all night, while in Boston it shuts down at 1AM officially, and actually somewhat earlier if you're at an early stop on a transit line's last run. You said you're not interested in nightlife, but this still might be a consideration if you found yourself working late. Also, except for convenience stores and a scattering of small local eateries, there's not much open in Boston late at night.
However, it's also true that NYC doesn't actually have more of EVERYTHING. If you take into account proximity to various outdoor activities, both cities are within day-trip distance to mountains, lakes, and beaches, etc., but it's a shorter trip from Boston to a greater variety of these amenities.
A little info on some of the finer points. Best of luck finishing school, and with your decision on where to move for the next phase of life.
BOS: costs less, has less, is less friendly, maybe be more comfy, is prettier, easier, more conservative.
NYC, bigger, more $$$, has more of everything in every category, harder, faster, and much much more.
NYC is the capital of the world.
BOS, CHI, everyplace else is just 2nd best.
Why settle for 2nd best? Live in NYC, visit BOS on a weekend. So much more to learn and experience there.
I feel qualified to chime in also as I have plenty of experience in both of these places, including shuttling back and forth right now.
I agree that Boston: costs less (though still not cheap), is more comfy, prettier, easier. I agree that it is more conservative in the sense of being more pretty and less flashy or cutting edge, not politically. Manhattan is fairly liberal but many of the outer boro neighborhoods are as insular and right-leaning as those in Boston.
I do not agree that Boston is less friendly. I think in both places you will find more brusque people than in the rest of the country, but in my experience there is more brusqueness and in your face machismo in New York by far. Boston people tend to be more reserved and thus may come across as cold; New Yorkers run hot and loud. But in both places there are very warm and kind people once you're in their inner circle, which will take some time.
I emphatically do not agree that Boston is second best. New York is an incredibly unique and abundant place, but at least for me it is not a question of always having "harder, faster, and much much more." You will see things on the streets of New York that you're unlikely to see elsewhere, which means there is a lot to be learned about the world there,
but to me, at this point, the place is just not livable. And that is coming from someone who can actually afford it.
Here are some other lessons I have learned in the last few years in New York:
-I can pay 50% more for an apartment half the size of my girlfriend's, that does not have a porch, yard, driveway, or laundry facilities.
-Needing a 15% broker's fee on top of 2 months rent for most decent apartments often requires one to pay well over $10000 up front to move in to a cramped space.
-Subways running all night are of little comfort when it takes you 2 hours to get home at 1 AM.
-You will likely spend so much time at work and commuting back to your tiny apartment that even if you have the funds, you will not have the time to take advantage of much of the offerings in the city
-Penn Station is an absolute nightmare. You will have visible bruises from all the jostling you will endure there.
-There are many days when getting around New York is enough to drain you for a week and you feel like there are jackhammers in your head, with hardly any escape from noise, dirt, and crowds.
-It is not fun to carry bags of groceries for 15 blocks or take them on a subway on a 90 degree day. Supermarkets in New York are awful, tiny and very overpriced with lousy produce
-It is not fun to spend 3 hours in traffic, in a car or on a bus, every single time you want to get out of a concrete jungle for a weekend or visit your significant other in Boston
-There is much more emphasis in NY on luxury stuff and wearing the right brand or drinking the right drink.
-A beer that costs $4 at a neighborhood bar in Boston is $6.50 at a comparable place in NY
-$110 parking tickets are no fun
-Mass. has a flat rate state income tax of 5.3%. At least in my tax bracket, you will pay 7.375% on every dollar of income to New York State, and another 4% to New York City. I could take a $20,000 pay cut and still bring home more in Massachusetts than I do in New York City.
I'd recommend living in Boston, which is manageable and livable, and spending the weekend in New York. As they say, it's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. And I've lived there for a total of about 15 years.
I'm someone who is shipping up to Boston in a few months. NYC was my first option and Boston my second, but I found that my bills in NY would total more than that of what I'd be raking in, but that doesn't mean I dislike Beantown. Both cities are better in their own way but I see them equally.
I have to do business in NYC but only a few times a month or so, and since I could afford Boston but not New York I figured why not just commute. It's not like it'll be an everyday commute. If I could afford the city, would I live there? Of course.
Sounds to me like Boston or Chicago would be a good fit for you. I won't be in Boston until October, but my family was born in Chicago. Prefer Boston to CHI.
Holden: It sounds to me like you absolutely dread New York. It can't be that bad, can it?
Holden: It sounds to me like you absolutely dread New York. It can't be that bad, can it?
I absolutely loathe it. I used to love it. I have half my family in New York and a lot of friends, but I have gotten older and I'm looking for something very different from the day-to-day crap of New York. These days I travel all over Europe and some places in the U.S. for business. When I get back the secretaries always ask if I'm happy to be back in New York, and honestly I can't remember a single time when I could honestly answer yes. I'm just burned out on the place.
Truth be told I've been wanting to get out for some time now but have stayed in NYC for a couple of important career opportunities. With that now safely ensconced on my resume, I am counting the weeks until I get out of here for good.
I just got an e-mail at work: "almost new stunning 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment...The rent is $5999 per month." This is considered normal here. I know there's some of that in Boston, but our place in Belmont is 10-15 mins from Harvard Sq., one third the price, beautiful and much bigger, and has three parking spots, two porches, and a yard. It is not a full service building, but frankly I'm more about a Sunday cookout than concierge service at this point.
I could not agree more with Holden. He hit on everything that bothers me about New York City. I am from the Boston area but interning in NYC for the summer. Can't wait to return to Boston. NYC is gross, expensive, stressful, and exhausting.
Friendliness:As someone who has spent a good deal of time in Boston, Newton, Savannah (GA), and South Florida, I can say people in Boston are moderatley friendly. I always found it really easy to make friends, but its not like how it is in the South.
Convenience: Well you don't need to own a car as there is a train or bus that arrives every five or ten minutes wherever you may be. If you must drive, the traffic is insane. You can also walk to many places, and do errands walking. I pulled off having two jobs and three groups of friends without having a car to get me around!
Cost: Expensive. The pay is better than average too, so factor that in. The cost of living is akin to NY, San Fran, and Miami Beach. Also, beware, some of the nicest neighborhoods (Back Bay) have huge rodent problems so you could end up paying $1,800 a month for a rat infested apartment!
I recomend staying away from any where near the Charles River and the Big Dig area since that is where many of the rats are.
Culture: This is by far my fav part of Boston. There is something for everyone. I always meet interesting people here. Having a good education is important. There is a sub-culture in Boston for everyone too. Also, Bostonians are very welcoming to people who are not from Boston unless they have the intellectual prowess of a clam or are plain snobs without the Harvard degree to back up the snobishness.
Weirdness: I have not been to San Fran yet, so I cannot compare Boston to San Fran. If you're looking for weirdness, go to Cambridge. Take a walk from Central Square to Harvard Square! Boston has its share of weirdos, but I think Cambridge beats it.
Good luck!
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