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Where did you get that from? Even so, that still doesn't mean that there are developers interested in developing the land near the new stadium to bring more activity throughout the year.
See, you don't read your links.
I wonder if you understand that developers are always "interested". Then they work the numbers to see if it will work. If the bank approves and the developer can get a decent return on investment, then the project "could" happen. The tenants themselves would also have to pay their bills and make a profit. There still is no guarantee that the project will work. It would really be an embarrassment to build this thing, and have half of the businesses fold. Would you like to see that?
I wonder if you understand that developers are always "interested". Then they work the numbers to see if it will work. If the bank approves and the developer can get a decent return on investment, then the project "could" happen. The tenants themselves would also have to pay their bills and make a profit. There still is no guarantee that the project will work. It would really be an embarrassment to build this thing, and have half of the businesses fold. Would you like to see that?
Something similar happened here in fast growing St Johns County. They built a World Golf Village down here in PGA territory and it failed.
Why would anyone from outside the area want to go to Orchard Park? There is nothing to do there. Downtown or Niagara Falls are draws, but Orchard Park? How many times have you visited Orchard Park, CK?
As JW says, of course developers are "interested" but they need an ROI. I don't know what kind of development that can survive on 9 days per year.
I wonder if you understand that developers are always "interested". Then they work the numbers to see if it will work. If the bank approves and the developer can get a decent return on investment, then the project "could" happen. The tenants themselves would also have to pay their bills and make a profit. There still is no guarantee that the project will work. It would really be an embarrassment to build this thing, and have half of the businesses fold. Would you like to see that?
No, where did you see that in the article? At least show where "I didn't read the article".
Again, the topic of the article is about development interest. Any development could fail, but that isn't the topic of discussion. Just another example of moving the goalposts of the topic.
Again, the point isn't about "surviving on 9 days a year" though. It is more about creating a year round atmosphere around the stadium , not just on game days. Whew...
This is interesting, as I was literally listening to a show on Saturday about how a host wouldn't debate anyone that doesn't read about the topic at hand(I'll add or stays on topic). This appears to be a real life illustration.
No, where did you see that in the article? At least show where "I didn't read the article".
Again, the topic of the article is about development interest. Any development could fail, but that isn't the topic of discussion. Just another example of moving the goalposts of the topic.
Again, the point isn't about "surviving on 9 days a year" though. It is more about creating a year round atmosphere around the stadium , not just on game days. Whew...
This is interesting, as I was literally listening to a show on Saturday about how a host wouldn't debate anyone that doesn't read about the topic at hand(I'll add or stays on topic). This appears to be a real life illustration.
Excuse me!!!!!!!!!! I am in the RE business, and have been my whole life, as well as other public businesses. Every property I "show interest" in gets looked at from multiple angles to find the best and greatest use. Have you ever heard the term "location, location, location"?
So let's stop with the insults, that others aren't as informed as you.
Just to add to the potential ideas that could help address year round attraction concerns, you could also look at adding a Fisher-Price theme similar to Hershey's Chocolate Town, which allows for families to make their own personal chocolate bars, but in this case, you could make your own toys/figures on the premises. Whether it is included with a Bills theme similar to the figurines that help to benefit the Oishei Hospital or the Little People collector items, both made by Fisher-Price. This can also offer a more family/kid friendly experience in that area, along with the other things mentioned above. https://www.hersheypark.com/chocolatetown/
Also, things like athletic fields for summer 7 on 7 tournaments or even a minor league Soccer team. A small arena for say a lower level(not AHL) minor league Hockey team similar to what some Major League Baseball teams have done with putting some farm teams closer to the parent team and/or an indoor Soccer team. Box and outdoor Lacrosse tournaments/games also come to mind, among other events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
For a hotel is the only time difficulty in financing is even mentioned...
"Plenty of opportunities
Ciminelli suggested a private developer might be interested in building a planned-unit development, with a mix of single- and multifamily housing, townhouses and even senior living, as well as scaled retail and restaurants. Others have said the property would be ideal for a museum, amphitheater, recreational complex or small arena.
“That’s what other communities do when they do these types of stadium projects,†Ciminelli said.
But what may be needed the most in the area is a multifloor hotel.
In Orchard Park, there is not a single hotel in the village, and only three one-floor motels in the town – all on Southwestern Boulevard. Most efforts over the years to build a large hotel in the municipality have been thwarted by officials wanting the area to remain quaint.
Between the ECC property and other space that could become available on Southwestern Boulevard close to the stadium – the former Twin Oak Motel, which was demolished in 2021, and La Galleria banquet center, which is closed but not yet up for sale – there’s plenty of room for a hotel, said Don Lorentz, executive director of the Orchard Park Chamber of Commerce.
That could be a specialty hotel, such as a a Great Wolf Lodge, which is not only a resort, but also a water park, featuring restaurants, arcades, spas and children’s activities.
However, getting financing for a hotel next to a stadium that would only be guaranteed to be in high demand a handful of times a year could be a challenge, Ciminelli said."
That bolded sentence is key, as it is only assuming if the activity is only for a handful of times a year. If the plan is to build a town center type of development, with some of the ideas included in the article or post, the property would become more active on a year round basis. That changes things and why the article does mention the Titletown example and another poster mentioned the Patriot Place example earlier, along with more recent examples given.
Also, something to consider is that the Township 5 development in Camillus is on 67 acres of land, while the land mentioned in the article is 102 acres. So, this means that a mixed use development of a similar size can fit into this space, with room for more. Titletown is on 45 acres of land, while Patriot Place is on 450 acres of land. If other land nearby can be available for development near the stadium, that could be even more potential for attractions in that area of the Southtowns.
I mention this to show that given that a town without the advantage of getting ten of thousands of people several times a year and with less people can support multiple retail areas, I think that Orchard Park, let alone including Hamburg, could do the same in a bigger market and can also develop something to attract people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Just to add to the potential ideas that could help address year round attraction concerns, you could also look at adding a Fisher-Price theme similar to Hershey's Chocolate Town, which allows for families to make their own personal chocolate bars, but in this case, you could make your own toys/figures on the premises. Whether it is included with a Bills theme similar to the figurines that help to benefit the Oishei Hospital or the Little People collector items, both made by Fisher-Price. This can also offer a more family/kid friendly experience in that area, along with the other things mentioned above. https://www.hersheypark.com/chocolatetown/
Also, things like athletic fields for summer 7 on 7 tournaments or even a minor league Soccer team. A small arena for say a lower level(not AHL) minor league Hockey team similar to what some Major League Baseball teams have done with putting some farm teams closer to the parent team and/or an indoor Soccer team. Box and outdoor Lacrosse tournaments/games also come to mind, among other events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
For a hotel is the only time difficulty in financing is even mentioned...
"Plenty of opportunities
Ciminelli suggested a private developer might be interested in building a planned-unit development, with a mix of single- and multifamily housing, townhouses and even senior living, as well as scaled retail and restaurants. Others have said the property would be ideal for a museum, amphitheater, recreational complex or small arena.
“That’s what other communities do when they do these types of stadium projects,†Ciminelli said.
But what may be needed the most in the area is a multifloor hotel.
In Orchard Park, there is not a single hotel in the village, and only three one-floor motels in the town – all on Southwestern Boulevard. Most efforts over the years to build a large hotel in the municipality have been thwarted by officials wanting the area to remain quaint.
Between the ECC property and other space that could become available on Southwestern Boulevard close to the stadium – the former Twin Oak Motel, which was demolished in 2021, and La Galleria banquet center, which is closed but not yet up for sale – there’s plenty of room for a hotel, said Don Lorentz, executive director of the Orchard Park Chamber of Commerce.
That could be a specialty hotel, such as a a Great Wolf Lodge, which is not only a resort, but also a water park, featuring restaurants, arcades, spas and children’s activities.
However, getting financing for a hotel next to a stadium that would only be guaranteed to be in high demand a handful of times a year could be a challenge, Ciminelli said."
That bolded sentence is key, as it is only assuming if the activity is only for a handful of times a year. If the plan is to build a town center type of development, with some of the ideas included in the article or post, the property would become more active on a year round basis. That changes things and why the article does mention the Titletown example and another poster mentioned the Patriot Place example earlier, along with more recent examples given.
Also, something to consider is that the Township 5 development in Camillus is on 67 acres of land, while the land mentioned in the article is 102 acres. So, this means that a mixed use development of a similar size can fit into this space, with room for more. Titletown is on 45 acres of land, while Patriot Place is on 450 acres of land. If other land nearby can be available for development near the stadium, that could be even more potential for attractions in that area of the Southtowns.
I mention this to show that given that a town without the advantage of getting ten of thousands of people several times a year and with less people can support multiple retail areas, I think that Orchard Park, let alone including Hamburg, could do the same in a bigger market and can also develop something to attract people.
Just to add here are examples of residential at a couple of the developments in other locations mentioned in the development article/thread, Titletown in Green Bay/Ashwaubenon(I wonder if Rasul Douglas, current Bills DB is familiar with the development): https://titletownhomes.com/residences/
More: https://titletownhomes.com/neighborhood/
Just to add here are examples of residential at a couple of the developments in other locations mentioned in the development article/thread, Titletown in Green Bay/Ashwaubenon(I wonder if Rasul Douglas, current Bills DB is familiar with the development): https://titletownhomes.com/residences/
More: https://titletownhomes.com/neighborhood/
This is totally irrelevant. What does Camillus and Green Bay have to do with Orchard Park? Again, how many times have you visited Orchard Park, CK?
You also haven’t read the article and it is related to development options…Again, read the article and check back later. You’ll find out the the writer of the article literally mentions the Titletown development and other related/similar developments have also been mentioned in the thread.
Camilus is 5 minutes to downtown Syracuse. Still from their Facebook page, there is a huge gas station to greet you, then an Outback and Buffalo Wildwings. In the distance is a strip plaza, and farther away some apartments. Despite being right in the middle of the metro, there's not much there, and certainly nothing to warrant a special trip.
Camilus is 5 minutes to downtown Syracuse. Still from their Facebook page, there is a huge gas station to greet you, then an Outback and Buffalo Wildwings. In the distance is a strip plaza, and farther away some apartments. Despite being right in the middle of the metro, there's not much there, and certainly nothing to warrant a special trip.
No, it isn't. Camillus is a second ring suburb west of Syracuse similar to Orchard Park, with Township 5 being about 10-15 minutes from Downtown Syracuse, while Highmark is about 15-20 minutes from Downtown Buffalo. Camillus(town) has about 25,000 people and Orchard Park has about 30,000 people, with adjacent Hamburg having 60,000 people and the property referred to in the article actually being near the town line. Hence, why I mentioned it as an example.
Township 5 does have activities during the warmer months(outdoor concerts, etc.), apartments on the property, a medical facility, one of the literally few Costco's in Upstate NY, a tru Hotel and other entertainment/restaurant/activity options that can only be found there or one of the few of its kind within the Syracuse area.
Again, the point is that is the type of development you can put next to the stadium, but also with some of the other pieces mentioned in the article(A Great Wolf Lodge, which is another indoor waterpark resort, was an example given similar to my Kalahari example(and ironically The Poconos has both): https://www.greatwolf.com/poconos?rd=true
What "hurts" the Great Wolf Lodge idea is that there is one in Niagara Falls Ontario. Hence, why I mentioned Kalahari and the Cascades Waterpark at Greek Peak in Cortland County as alternative, but similar examples of that suggestion in the article. Both are indoor waterparks that are used all year and have lodging on the premises. That is why I mentioned those things and included a tie in with Fisher-Price/Mattel to offer a locally based company theme, with a worldwide brand.
I also thought of the Nickelodeon Amusement Park I've been to at the American Dream mall in NJ near Giants stadium, as another idea for a place that could be a part of a town center community and that can be used all year.
From there, I took it to the Hershey Park/Campus experience I've had for other things that could be included, like some of the things at Chocolate Town and the make your own chocolate, but in the case of the Fisher-Price theme, you can make your own toy. Hershey also has the Giant Center, named after the supermarket brand/company, which is a 10-12,000 seat arena that hosts the Hershey Bears, an AHL team and the PA HS Basketball Championships. While I wasn't necessarily thinking of an arena that big, a similar arena could be used for minor league sports such as Hockey, Arena Football, Box Lacrosse(think proximity to Seneca Nation lands and their funding that helped to pay for the stadium, etc.) and/or Indoor Soccer; while offering another sporting event options in the area during the winter and outdoor fields can offer activities during the Spring/Summer like 7 on 7 tournaments, Lacrosse, Baseball, etc. So, those are ideas that can create a more active, year round location in a town center type of community.
Another thing that came to mind is that people may not realize that some people that attend games at Highmark may actually lodge in say Syracuse or other cities. I say that because I was at a staycation of sorts at a hotel one weekend and noticed that Sunday morning during the Fall that there were quite a few people with Bills jerseys, shirts and other gear on while eating breakfast. This hotel is actually across the street from Destiny USA. So, that may indicate a need for more hotel space in the immediate area around/near the stadium, as people staying at this hotel likely went to Destiny USA, which is the state's largest shopping center and has other things like a comedy club(FunnyBone), an indoor Go Kart track, an indoor bowling/entertainment spot, Wonderworks, now a Get Air indoor bounce gym, etc. That is another reason why I mentioned adding some of those things to a new development with a hotel, as that could allow people/families to make a weekend of it or even come back to visit or for locals to go to those things all year at that location.
This doesn't even get into the Titletown idea mentioned in the article or the Patriot Place idea mention by Urban Peasant.
No, it isn't. Camillus is a second ring suburb west of Syracuse similar to Orchard Park, with Township 5 being about 10-15 minutes from Downtown Syracuse, while Highmark is about 15-20 minutes from Downtown Buffalo. Camillus(town) has about 25,000 people and Orchard Park has about 30,000 people, with adjacent Hamburg having 60,000 people and the property referred to in the article actually being near the town line. Hence, why I mentioned it as an example.
Township 5 does have activities during the warmer months(outdoor concerts, etc.), apartments on the property, a medical facility, one of the literally few Costco's in Upstate NY, a tru Hotel and other entertainment/restaurant/activity options that can only be found there or one of the few of its kind within the Syracuse area.
Again, the point is that is the type of development you can put next to the stadium, but also with some of the other pieces mentioned in the article(A Great Wolf Lodge, which is another indoor waterpark resort, was an example given similar to my Kalahari example(and ironically The Poconos has both): https://www.greatwolf.com/poconos?rd=true
What "hurts" the Great Wolf Lodge idea is that there is one in Niagara Falls Ontario. Hence, why I mentioned Kalahari and the Cascades Waterpark at Greek Peak in Cortland County as alternative, but similar examples of that suggestion in the article. Both are indoor waterparks that are used all year and have lodging on the premises. That is why I mentioned those things and included a tie in with Fisher-Price/Mattel to offer a locally based company theme, with a worldwide brand.
I also thought of the Nickelodeon Amusement Park I've been to at the American Dream mall in NJ near Giants stadium, as another idea for a place that could be a part of a town center community and that can be used all year.
From there, I took it to the Hershey Park/Campus experience I've had for other things that could be included, like some of the things at Chocolate Town and the make your own chocolate, but in the case of the Fisher-Price theme, you can make your own toy. Hershey also has the Giant Center, named after the supermarket brand/company, which is a 10-12,000 seat arena that hosts the Hershey Bears, an AHL team and the PA HS Basketball Championships. While I wasn't necessarily thinking of an arena that big, a similar arena could be used for minor league sports such as Hockey, Arena Football, Box Lacrosse(think proximity to Seneca Nation lands and their funding that helped to pay for the stadium, etc.) and/or Indoor Soccer; while offering another sporting event options in the area during the winter and outdoor fields can offer activities during the Spring/Summer like 7 on 7 tournaments, Lacrosse, Baseball, etc. So, those are ideas that can create a more active, year round location in a town center type of community.
Another thing that came to mind is that people may not realize that some people that attend games at Highmark may actually lodge in say Syracuse or other cities. I say that because I was at a staycation of sorts at a hotel one weekend and noticed that Sunday morning during the Fall that there were quite a few people with Bills jerseys, shirts and other gear on while eating breakfast. This hotel is actually across the street from Destiny USA. So, that may indicate a need for more hotel space in the immediate area around/near the stadium, as people staying at this hotel likely went to Destiny USA, which is the state's largest shopping center and has other things like a comedy club(FunnyBone), an indoor Go Kart track, an indoor bowling/entertainment spot, Wonderworks, now a Get Air indoor bounce gym, etc. That is another reason why I mentioned adding some of those things to a new development with a hotel, as that could allow people/families to make a weekend of it or even come back to visit or for locals to go to those things all year at that location.
This doesn't even get into the Titletown idea mentioned in the article or the Patriot Place idea mention by Urban Peasant.
Giant Center in Hershey: https://www.hersheyentertainment.com/giant-center/info/ (say if an arena was built on the site mentioned in the article, you could call a team something like the Southtowns Stampede, to give a similar connection to the proximity to the Bills stadium and Buffalo(think also about what a group of said animal does), while identifying with that part of the metro area. Could even call the town center that as well.)
and Hersheypark Stadium, which hosts the PA HS Football championships and more: https://www.hersheyentertainment.com...ypark-stadium/ (Hershey is a similar distance from Downtown Harrisburg to that of the stadium site to Downtown Buffalo. Derry Township PA, which is is where Hershey is located, has about 25,000 people.)
So, these are some examples that could be considered for the site.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-12-2024 at 07:45 AM..
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