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How much time have you spent in those towns? I lived in OP, EA, Boston NY, WS and its primarily a rural area. Its one thing to sit in front of your computer and quote statistics and another to actually live in the area. As you can see Tops tried a "Whole Foods" type store, which was unsuccessful and closed:
How much time have you spent in those towns? I lived in OP, EA, Boston NY, WS and its primarily a rural area. Its one thing to sit in front of your computer and quote statistics and another to actually live in the area. As you can see Tops tried a "Whole Foods" type store, which was unsuccessful and closed:
Again, the income is there and perhaps the store wasn't successful for other reasons like Tops having higher prices in many cases than even Wegmans for some things, from my experience or the location within the town. From the article: "Location matters, too. Tops placed the Orchard Fresh store in a retail plaza that didn’t surround other major retailers so shoppers would have to make a special trip to the store, an industry analyst told Buffalo News. Chances of discovery were also low."
It also was the only store in terms of the new concept and was a "test" store. Then, there is this: "Burt Flickinger, managing director with Strategic Resources Group, also added that Orchard Fresh was a cash drain on Tops, not just because it couldn’t find its place in the market but because it was never scaled out. He added that closing Orchard Fresh will give Tops more funds to invest in its existing stores. Last year, Tops announced a $40 million plan to upgrade its existing stores" So, it was as much a business decision by Tops than anything else.
So, it isn't the same given Trader Joe's more proven track record versus a "test" store by a locally based chain that has never had the store concept before.
As mentioned, a store like Trader Joe's would make sense in a lifestyle/town center type of development near the stadium due to not being available or something different in that area and with other retail/attractions, would make better sense.
Given that the forum is called city-data and data needs analysis, this is important information for such discussions, as it can give an idea and some perspective behind the discussion. that goes for the article and why reading them is important, as well as stats and visual information.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-18-2024 at 07:26 AM..
I knew what you were going to write the minute I finished my post. Forget about Tops for now and lets take Dash's Market for an example, they are a small upscale regional chain. How many locations do you see in the Southtowns? NONE. Plain and simple, there is not the population density to support one. So no Trader Joes, no Whole Foods, no Sprouts, no Fresh Market because the area can not support them. These companies can open anywhere in the US and economically disadvantaged places like WNY are not high on their list. The ONLY reason there is a Trader Joes and Whole Foods is because of SUNYAB and the densely populated area. Both are located between the 2 UB campuses. The areas reputation as a union hotbed doesn't help.
Last edited by Thundarr457; 03-18-2024 at 08:41 AM..
I'm actually surprized that store closed, with 90,000 population.. Not sure why people had a hard time finding it, as was stated. Tops has been experimenting with new concept stores for years. Before that one, they had a concept called "Walter's". They even had a location in Perinton. There also was the Tops International stores, of which there were quite a few.
To contrast, the town of Greece has 95,000 people, 3 Wegmans, 1 Tops, 2 Walmarts, several Aldi's, Target and a BJ's.
So even if the area has the income to support it, the residents don't seem to want large scale development.
I'm actually surprized that store closed, with 90,000 population.. Not sure why people had a hard time finding it, as was stated. Tops has been experimenting with new concept stores for years. Before that one, they had a concept called "Walter's". They even had a location in Perinton. There also was the Tops International stores, of which there were quite a few.
To contrast, the town of Greece has 95,000 people, 3 Wegmans, 1 Tops, 2 Walmarts, several Aldi's, Target and a BJ's.
So even if the area has the income to support it, the residents don't seem to want large scale development.
The article mentions why it didn't work, as mentioned a couple of posts above.
I knew what you were going to write the minute I finished my post. Forget about Tops for now and lets take Dash's Market for an example, they are a small upscale regional chain. How many locations do you see in the Southtowns? NONE. Plain and simple, there is not the population density to support one. So no Trader Joes, no Whole Foods, no Sprouts, no Fresh Market because the area can not support them. These companies can open anywhere in the US and economically disadvantaged places like WNY are not high on their list. The ONLY reason there is a Trader Joes and Whole Foods is because of SUNYAB and the densely populated area. Both are located between the 2 UB campuses. The areas reputation as a union hotbed doesn't help.
Your post contradicts itself, as said upscale stores are in the area. It is just that the Southtowns are an untapped market for such a store. Especially if you put it in a community such as a town center, which will bring people in versus a store in a location with minimal activity. That is the point, as if the activity is created, such a store is more likely to locate there due to the density that the development.
Also, Trader Joe's has its HQ's in Monrovia CA. Meaning, it is based in a state with a union participation rate slightly below the national percentage. So, it isn't like they aren't familiar with being in a state with union participation. Plus, that wouldn't explain away the locations across the state, including a smaller place/area like Ithaca or a similar suburban area like Colonie: https://locations.traderjoes.com/ny/
Yeah, a "business decision". In other words, it wasn't profitable.
Correct due to the location. this is actually a good example of why I'm thinking of having that type of a store in an active town center/lifestyle center type of community/neighborhood/development.
Correct due to the location. this is actually a good example of why I'm thinking of having that type of a store in an active town center/lifestyle center type of community/neighborhood/development.
That would go for Dash's as well.
What does location have to do with it? It looks like a logical location. Normally, it's the grocery store that defines the areas shopping preferences. Everyone wants to be next to the grocery store, because they get so much foot traffic. 99% of people get in their car to drive to the grocery store, so how was it in a remote location? I have to drive 7 miles, myself. Do you really think I'd starve to death rather than drive 7 1/2 miles?
From what I gather is they never got the product mix and size figured out.
What does location have to do with it? It looks like a logical location. Normally, it's the grocery store that defines the areas shopping preferences. Everyone wants to be next to the grocery store, because they get so much foot traffic. 99% of people get in their car to drive to the grocery store, so how was it in a remote location? I have to drive 7 miles, myself. Do you really think I'd starve to death rather than drive 7 1/2 miles?
From what I gather is they never got the product mix and size figured out.
Did you read the article Thundarr posted? The answer is right there in black and white as to why the Tops grocery store did not work in the location it was setup in. A grocery store by itself isn't going to work and that appears to have been one of the issues, besides that it was really a test run at a different grocery format. That is all within the article and reading it would eliminate a lot of the back and forth.
Again, the point behind the grocery store talk is in relation to the town center/lifestyle center plan, which would be a better fit for a store like Trader Joe's due to being a concentration of retail/attractions and people at that location.
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