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Your post contradicts itself, as said upscale stores are in the area. It is just that the Southtowns are an untapped market for such a store. Especially if you put it in a community such as a town center, which will bring people in versus a store in a location with minimal activity. That is the point, as if the activity is created, such a store is more likely to locate there due to the density that the development.
Also, Trader Joe's has its HQ's in Monrovia CA. Meaning, it is based in a state with a union participation rate slightly below the national percentage. So, it isn't like they aren't familiar with being in a state with union participation. Plus, that wouldn't explain away the locations across the state, including a smaller place/area like Ithaca or a similar suburban area like Colonie: https://locations.traderjoes.com/ny/
My post does not contradict itself. If the Southtowns was such an untapped market, wouldn't you think that some company would have noticed it by now? Just because a company has its headquarters in a union friendly state doesn't mean they want all their locations unionized. These "town centers" you quote are repurposed failed malls, that can be had for the cheap including infrastructure. Down here in fast growing St Johns county we have master planned communities such as Nocatee, Beachwalk, Silverleaf, Beacon Lake, eTown, Tamaya, Wildlight etc each with thousands of homes and their own retain spin-off town centers, In WNY they take bankrupt malls, tear down part of them and put in housing and call them lifestyle communities or town centers. The Southtowns has the worst weather in the area, I know, I lived there. The limited retail is mostly in Blasdell which straddles the City and the Southtowns. The stores there are usually smaller and much less busy then their Northtown counterparts, I know this from personal experience.
My post does not contradict itself. If the Southtowns was such an untapped market, wouldn't you think that some company would have noticed it by now? Just because a company has its headquarters in a union friendly state doesn't mean they want all their locations unionized. These "town centers" you quote are repurposed failed malls, that can be had for the cheap including infrastructure. Down here in fast growing St Johns county we have master planned communities such as Nocatee, Beachwalk, Silverleaf, Beacon Lake, eTown, Tamaya, Wildlight etc each with thousands of homes and their own retain spin-off town centers, In WNY they take bankrupt malls, tear down part of them and put in housing and call them lifestyle communities or town centers. The Southtowns has the worst weather in the area, I know, I lived there. The limited retail is mostly in Blasdell which straddles the City and the Southtowns. The stores there are usually smaller and much less busy then their Northtown counterparts, I know this from personal experience.
It did due to actually talking about the blue collar nature not being able to support said businesses, but also mentioning how a part of the area actually can support said businesses.
Not necessarily, as the area has apparently seen growth in population/incomes. So, it may be a matter of time.
Also, you brought unions into this and that doesn't explain the other locations across the state.
This thread isn't about FL or Jacksonville. They have their own forum on C-D.
Umm, lifestyle/town centers have been built or been a form of redevelopment across the country. Perhaps check out the Urban Planning forum or do some research on the topic, as that isn't exclusive to WNY, which doesn't have such development from my knowledge.
Blasdell can't straddle the city, as Lackawanna or West Seneca are the first communities out of the city heading south and Blasdell is in the town of Hamburg. Plus, McKinley Parkway is east of the village.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2024 at 09:40 AM..
I answered the question. It is an old stadium that is past its shelf life. Again, development for an old stadium doesn't make sense, when a new stadium is needed.
Also, you could have asked the same question about other stadiums across the country. For instance, Patriot Place didn't come about until Gillette Stadium was built. Title Town in Green Bay is a recent development. So, as the point has already been made, this is a newer trend to make the areas around the stadium a live/work/play type of location. Can't repeat this point enough.
The age of the stadium is irrelevant, not to mention the multi hundred million dollar upgrades done twice, without any outside development.
The stadium itself isn't even relevant.
All you do is mention other places, and then criticize when someone else sites an example, as Thundaar has regarding Jacksonville.
Once again, I ask. What exactly are you proposing? How many square foot of commercial, who would the tenants be, and what would the rent be?
How many housing units, and how large and what would the rents be?
How many visitors, and how much will be spent?
Are there near by competitors?
What is the time line for construction?
Since you are so adamite in pushing this idea, I'm sure you have researched these questions, as any developer would. Otherwise, you can pick up a copy of SIMMS Mall developer and have some fun.
The age of the stadium is irrelevant, not to mention the multi hundred million dollar upgrades done twice, without any outside development.
The stadium itself isn't even relevant.
All you do is mention other places, and then criticize when someone else sites an example, as Thundaar has regarding Jacksonville.
Once again, I ask. What exactly are you proposing? How many square foot of commercial, who would the tenants be, and what would the rent be?
How many housing units, and how large and what would the rents be?
How many visitors, and how much will be spent?
Are there near by competitors?
What is the time line for construction?
Since you are so adamite in pushing this idea, I'm sure you have researched these questions, as any developer would. Otherwise, you can pick up a copy of SIMMS Mall developer and have some fun.
I'm not a developer and just discussing what is on topic, not Jacksonville or your other questions. This isn't about you two, which is what these threads turn into by distracting from the actual topic.
Again, my point, as well as that of others(Urban Peasant) is simple. The land near the new stadium has interest from developers and with some throwing out the idea that the land can be turned into an all year destination with a live/work/play development. Even proponents of the city stadium plan had that in mind at least to some degree. So, that part has always been considered around the new stadium. You just have to do the fundamental thing of just reading the article and other ideas suggested in the thread.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2024 at 09:53 AM..
Not necessarily, as the area has apparently seen growth in population/incomes. So, it may be a matter of time.
Also, you brought unions into this and that doesn't explain the other locations across the state.
This thread isn't about FL or Jacksonville. They have their own forum on C-D.
Umm, lifestyle/town centers have been built or been a form of redevelopment across the country. Perhaps check out the Urban Planning forum or do some research on the topic, as that isn't exclusive to WNY, which doesn't have such development from my knowledge.
Blasdell can't straddle the city, as Lackawanna or West Seneca are the first communities out of the city heading south and Blasdell is in the town of Hamburg. Plus, McKinley Parkway is east of the village.
Its not a big secret that Buffalo is a hotbed of unionization.
The Southtowns are too insular and spread out for major economic development.
Thanks for the heads up on Jacksonville and FL forums. I was using that as an example of a high growth area. You seem to have no trouble mentioning other areas that have nothing to do with Buffalo.
I never said lifestyle/town centers were exclusive to WNY
The area around the McKinley Mall has most of the Southtowns big box retail like BJs, Home Depot, Wegmans, Hobby Lobby, etc
The Southtowns are too insular and spread out for major economic development.
Thanks for the heads up on Jacksonville and FL forums. I was using that as an example of a high growth area.
I never said lifestyle/town centers were exclusive to WNY
The area around the McKinley Mall has most of the Southtowns big box retail like BJs, Home Depot, Wegmans, Hobby Lobby, etc
What does unionization at Starbucks/in general or Jacksonville have to do with this aspect of the topic?
Again, there are towns that are growing and the potential, as well as interest for development is there. Especially given that the land mentioned in the article is straddling two towns in that part of the metro area that are growing.
Again, you can have other retailers that aren't currently in the that part of the area. My example of Camillus having multiple shopping areas proves that you can have multiple, viable shopping centers in the same town. Let alone the fact that Camillus has 5000 less people than Orchard Park, with 60,000 people in Hamburg in the next town over.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2024 at 09:59 AM..
What does unionization at Starbucks/in general or Jacksonville have to do with this aspect of the topic?
Again, there are towns that are growing and the potential, as well as interest for development is there. Especially given that the land mentioned in the article is straddling two towns in that part of the metro area that are growing.
Companies tend to avoid areas that are hotbeds of unionization unless there are compelling reasons to go there. Jacksonville is just as important as Columbus, OH or other areas that you frequently mention, that have nothing to do with Buffalo.
I asked you a few days ago "how much time you have spent in the Southtowns?"
Companies tend to avoid areas that are hotbeds of unionization unless there are compelling reasons to go there. Jacksonville is just as important as Columbus, OH or other areas that you frequently mention, that have nothing to do with Buffalo.
I asked you a few days ago "how much time you have spent in the Southtowns?"
The difference is that I'm discussing ideas that are relevant to the town center/lifestyle center piece mentioned in the article. Did you even read the article posted earlier in the thread?
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2024 at 09:57 AM..
The difference is that I lived in the Southtowns for over 30 years and have a much clearer understanding of the area. Its too spread out like Clarence. Clarence has lots of high income folks, but there are not enough of them to warrant retail.
The difference is that I lived in the Southtowns for over 30 years and have a much clearer understanding of the area. Its too spread out like Clarence. Clarence has lots of high income folks, but there are not enough of them to warrant retail.
Clarence is also next to Amherst, which has plenty of retail, including on the border of those towns. Totally different circumstances from what I am discussing, which is about development ideas for a town center/mixed use community on property near the new stadium. The stadium piece is what is lacking in Clarence and the point is to build around the stadium like previous examples like Title Town in Green Bay and Patriot Place in Foxborough, which are year round locations. That is the point in terms of development around NFL stadiums, which is a relatively recent trend.
An article I came across that discusses this topic(please read before commenting, as it would just continue with the lack of context in the development around the stadium aspect), ‘The stadium is secondary’: how US sports teams became real-estate speculators: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...wners-stadiums
The difference is that the development would come from private developers, according to the Buffalo News article versus from the Bills organization, as of now. So. if anything, the idea of development around the stadium has been done in other markets and the Bills Stadium would be behind the curve if development isn't planned for that area.
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