Outrageous police salaries (San Jose, San Francisco, Oakland: crime, unemployed, buying)

[Hwy phantom]

Originally Posted by Beth56

I'm thinking perhaps the size of the city's population has something to do with salary. Managing a police force for 800,000 people is a bigger job than managing a police force for 400,000. Just a thought.

Yeah really, does that apply to Bell, Ca. The population there is 36k.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Westernwayfarer

Just a thought: When the economy is great, you never hear a word about public safety salaries or pensions.

When times are good, the public generally doesn't pay attention to this stuff and figures everything is taking care of itself. The unions knew this and in the late 1990s & early 2000s got pension enhancements while the general public wasn't paying attention.

Originally Posted by Westernwayfarer

The last time I checked, the free market dictates a person's worth. As it stands with the economy now, I can assure you and others that police and fire are giving back part of their salaries to assist the cities and counties they represent. Again, law enforcement and fire protection is a stressful and risky occupation, they should recieve a soild pension. Just my two cents..

But that's the problem. It's NOT a free market. By defninition, unionized workforces are a rigged market. They essentially bribe politicians so they can be paid above market salaries. That's especially true for cops/firemen because many jurisidictions in California have what's called "binding arbitration" for police & fire departments. That means if the cops/firemen don't like their contract, they can take it to an arbitrator. The arbitrator almost always decides in their favor. And even the police/fire departments that don't have binding arbitration have to compete for officers from those that do, so they are still affected by it.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Ceece

Some of those are very high but I don't think there are too many people who can do it. I also wonder where this info came from. I ask because my husbands employer once sent out to it's employees a breakdown of the cost associated with all the benefits they receive, everything from health insurance to the life insurance they provide, and added it all up to arrive at a "total compensation" figure. Now, we sure did look rich on paper but so much of it was not salary and it was money we never saw. I'm wondering if that's the case here too? If so, some of them are probably underpaid.

Nope Ceece, you can be sure those are just the salaries. The benefit costs are on top of that. I work in the public sector so I know. I get those annual benefit statements, too. My benefits are an additional 36% cost on top of my salary. It's even more for police & fire departments because they get better benefits.

[Beth56]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

Yeah really, does that apply to Bell, Ca. The population there is 36k.

No reason to get snarky. I get your point. But just because Bell is full of thieves, does not mean all cities are.

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

The dot com bubble popped 10 years ago and the public sector never readjusted sense then, they were just hopping tax payers wouldn't notice. Also the free market applies to the private sector not government.

Considering how many times I've heard people say that government should operate like a business, this statement is unusual. What market principles should apply to government if not the free market?

[chitown85]

I just spotted this thread. I don't live in California, but I would like to weigh in here. Free market economy includes unions. People have the right to organize under free market principles, the Constitution, and state law. If unions are outlawed, then a free market economy is minimized because people are no longer free to unionize.

I don't have a problem with these salaries because virtually all police officers deserve every cent they make. Also remember, since the cost of living in the Bay area is so high, the salaries are adjusted to reflect that. Not to mention, overtime is billed at time and a half on days where the officer is schedule and works extra hours and double time on days when the officer is not on schedule/or a holiday and works. It is well known CA has a police officer shortage. If a Sergeant makes $110K a year after 15 years on the job, that's $55 an hour. If they work 10 hours of time and a half OT a week, thats $82 an hour= $820 a week extra pay. Times that by 40 weeks (figure that doesnt happen every week), that's an extra $33,000 a year. That doesn't even count the double time for days off worked and holidays worked and you are already up to $143K a year.

[humboldtrat]

Originally Posted by Westernwayfarer

Hmm,

Just a question: Do you wear a bullet proof vest to work? Also, how about those athletes you may support in the NFL, NBA, MLB, and their salaries. Who's more important to society...

Must be a government employee who wants to keep the status quo.

[steel7]

Do you people believe the police + firemen deserve the high salaries + benefits & pensions ?

[Hwy phantom]

Originally Posted by MIKEETC

Considering how many times I've heard people say that government should operate like a business, this statement is unusual. What market principles should apply to government if not the free market?

I'm all for a free market system applying towards government. I'm just saying currently it's not a free market system.

[Hwy phantom]

Originally Posted by chitown85

I just spotted this thread. I don't live in California, but I would like to weigh in here. Free market economy includes unions. People have the right to organize under free market principles, the Constitution, and state law. If unions are outlawed, then a free market economy is minimized because people are no longer free to unionize.

I don't have a problem with these salaries because virtually all police officers deserve every cent they make. Also remember, since the cost of living in the Bay area is so high, the salaries are adjusted to reflect that. Not to mention, overtime is billed at time and a half on days where the officer is schedule and works extra hours and double time on days when the officer is not on schedule/or a holiday and works. It is well known CA has a police officer shortage. If a Sergeant makes $110K a year after 15 years on the job, that's $55 an hour. If they work 10 hours of time and a half OT a week, thats $82 an hour= $820 a week extra pay. Times that by 40 weeks (figure that doesnt happen every week), that's an extra $33,000 a year. That doesn't even count the double time for days off worked and holidays worked and you are already up to $143K a year.

They deserve every cent eh? That's easy for you to say, your not a CA tax payer. And the comment about the cost of living, give me a break. First of all, most people in the private sector don't make anywhere near these salaries nor do they get the bloated pensions. And second most of these people don't even live in the cities they work for, they live in less expensive areas and commute. That works out quite well for firefighters considering they stay at the firehouse will on shift and then go home for 4-5 days.