Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All of you turn around and look back. Let's start where the costs do -- medical schools, medical supplies, medical technology, pharmaceuticals -- are the insurers supposed to not pay for those increases over which they have limited control?
I'm not defending them by any means but the costs start long before they add theirs. Then they have a responsibility to their stock holders just like most corporations. That's called "free enterprise."
ObamaCare may result in a few changes and may appeal politically but it's attacking the head when the tail is wagging the dog.
Dont'cha think the tail might stop wagging after you cut the head off?
A big part of medical cost increases can be attributed to (1) litigation and liability, (2) regulation and FDA compliance, (3) in the case of hospitals, being forced to treat patients even when they cannot pay.
I myself have written parts of submittal to the FDA to get approval for medical devices. Recalling that the weight of the documentation of a passenger jet airliner weighs more than the airliner itself (from when I worked in the industry) I bet the weight of the printed submittal to the FDA for a pacemaker outweighs the fattest patient that gets implanted. I'm not sure I would argue for less paperwork but researching, writing and submitting all the paperwork to the FDA eats up huge amounts of funding, and that's even after the manufacturer has researched and developed the device or drug seeking approval.
By the way, the pacemaker designs I worked on involved hundreds of engineers on the team to develop a single product. Development time was 1-2 years or longer, and often the product had to be dropped before production and a new model started incorporating what had been learned while developing the dropped product. (I worked on the software team, developing the "firmware" that ran the microcomputer in the pacemaker.)
Doctors have to carry liability insurance or one lawsuit could wipe them out permanently. Litigation has increased, awards have increased, insurance companies have to pay that out and the only way they can continue to insure doctors is by increasing the rates. The doctors pass the increases onto us or onto our health insurers, driving that up too.
Having worked in the medical device industry for the last couple decades I've been expecting for several or a dozen years that medical costs were headed for a crisis. The chickens are just now coming home to roost! If you think it's bad now, fast forward about several or a dozen years and it's going to be totally crazy! I'm wondering if many of us (particularly myself) are even going to be able to afford medical treatment, or have one serious illness and lose everything and then join the other poor people who go on the dole because they can't afford to pay for treatment.
Mark my words: The medical cost increases we've seen up to now are just the beginning. Everything is going to skyrocket, drugs, medical devices, treatment, copays, insurance, hospitals, everything!
Everything is skyrocketing due to the cost of labor and greed. The CEO and the top administration wants to minimize labor expenses so they could pocket more of the salary raises. No one within a company wants to willingly take a pay cut. So the obvious option is to raise the price on every product and services they sell.
As people are dropping their health insurance, the higher the rates must go as the companies realize that must keep up the regular of revenue to cover existing costs.
Few people care to actually read facts and interpret them correctly....This only speaks about individually purchased plans and not GROUP INSURANCE PLANS ... For which costs have definitely gone up ...
Insurance companies can't raise the rate of GROUP insurance plans without a mass revolt by the companies whose employees they cover. They go after the individual policy holders, who have no other policies from which to chose since they are either self employed, are not covered at work, are students, etc. Are you not aware that last year, Anthem Blue Cross tried the same thing that Blue Shield is attempting? After a state investigation, it was found their requests for premium increases far exceeded their supposed increased medical costs.
Quote:
Confirmation bias is a mother f***r I guess.... Even w/ facts, people tend to not understand them fully .. or care for the details which go against their position.
Confirmation? Of the experience of your cousin? I think not. As if none of us, our family members, neighbors, friends (and probably posters on this board) haven't consulted our insurance brokers, who've gone over the numbers with us numerous times.
Insurance companies can't raise the rate of GROUP insurance plans without a mass revolt by the companies whose employees they cover.
I doubt group insurance plans are going to escape huge price increases. I believe that employers negotiate contracts with insurers, so the insurer can't increase the prices until the contract comes up for renewal. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
Also, from what I hear even employees covered by their employers are facing increased copays, increased deductibles and decreased coverage. Many are now required to pay part of their employer provided health insurance rather than the previous standard of employees getting self coverage for free and then paying only to add family coverage. Employee shares are increasing for those who already pay part. Or at least I hear people complaining about that. Again I could be wrong.
As I stated earlier in this topic, ALL medical costs are going up, most of it much faster than ordinary inflation. Nobody is going to escape it, not even employees who get their coverage at work.
There is only one person who can't pass on the increased medical costs: the patient. That is who will end up paying for it one way or another.
Dont'cha think the tail might stop wagging after you cut the head off?
A big part of medical cost increases can be attributed to (1) litigation and liability, (2) regulation and FDA compliance, (3) in the case of hospitals, being forced to treat patients even when they cannot pay.
I myself have written parts of submittal to the FDA to get approval for medical devices. Recalling that the weight of the documentation of a passenger jet airliner weighs more than the airliner itself (from when I worked in the industry) I bet the weight of the printed submittal to the FDA for a pacemaker outweighs the fattest patient that gets implanted. I'm not sure I would argue for less paperwork but researching, writing and submitting all the paperwork to the FDA eats up huge amounts of funding, and that's even after the manufacturer has researched and developed the device or drug seeking approval.
By the way, the pacemaker designs I worked on involved hundreds of engineers on the team to develop a single product. Development time was 1-2 years or longer, and often the product had to be dropped before production and a new model started incorporating what had been learned while developing the dropped product. (I worked on the software team, developing the "firmware" that ran the microcomputer in the pacemaker.)
Doctors have to carry liability insurance or one lawsuit could wipe them out permanently. Litigation has increased, awards have increased, insurance companies have to pay that out and the only way they can continue to insure doctors is by increasing the rates. The doctors pass the increases onto us or onto our health insurers, driving that up too.
Having worked in the medical device industry for the last couple decades I've been expecting for several or a dozen years that medical costs were headed for a crisis. The chickens are just now coming home to roost! If you think it's bad now, fast forward about several or a dozen years and it's going to be totally crazy! I'm wondering if many of us (particularly myself) are even going to be able to afford medical treatment, or have one serious illness and lose everything and then join the other poor people who go on the dole because they can't afford to pay for treatment.
Mark my words: The medical cost increases we've seen up to now are just the beginning. Everything is going to skyrocket, drugs, medical devices, treatment, copays, insurance, hospitals, everything!
No doubt. So the advantage of ObamaCare is what? To me it sounds like his redistribution scheme which is soak the haves to give to the have nots regardless of merit. I'm happy with the healthcare I have and don't want to pay for someone else's when they haven't "contributed" to the extent I have UNLESS they have been physically or mentally unable to do so. I damn sure don't want to continue paying for those who shouldn't be here in the first place.
If you really like redistribution, try these on for size:
A Father Daughter Talk
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be very liberal, and was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a
boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"
She replied, " Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't eve show up for classes because she's too hung over."
Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republicans"
AND THE CONVERSE
A Father Daughter Talk
A middle aged man was about to finish his first year as a member of the senior management team of his company (with stock options as part of his salary package). Like so many others his age, he considered himself to be very fiscally and socially conservative, and was very much in against the redistribution of wealth.
He was deeply ashamed that his daughter was a rather staunch liberal, a feeling he openly expressed. Based on the long business lunches that he had participated in, and the occasional chat with an executive vice president, he felt that his daughter had for years harbored an evil, socialist desire to take what he thought should be his.
One day he was challenging his daughter on her belief in higher taxes on the rich and the introduction of universal health care. The self-professed rationalism and ‘real world experience’ proclaimed by his management team had to be the truth and he indicated so to his daughter. She responded by asking how his company was doing in it expansion plans.
Taken aback, he answered rather haughtily that he had a 12% market share, and let her know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that he was working within a very difficult economic environment and was constantly cutting costs and investing in new technology, which left him no time to offer huge discounts like other companies he knew. He didn't even have time for a vacation, and didn't really have time to spend on his yacht or the golf course because he spent all his time working.
His daughter listened and then asked, "How is your friend Arthur doing with his business?"
He replied, "Arthur is raking it in. All he does is buy up smaller companies which are vulnerable to take-over, fire all the staff and outsource the labor overseas, producing what we produce at half the cost and taking our market share with slick advertising and shoddy products - he never works, and makes a mint. He is so popular with Forbes, business for him is a blast. He's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times he doesn't even show up at his office because he skiing in the Alps."
His wise daughter asked her father, "Why don't you go let him know your company is vulnerable to take-over and negotiate a deal for him to buy you out. That way you will both get a wad of money and certainly that would be a logical thing to do within a free-market economy."
The father, visibly shocked by his daughter’s suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be right! I have worked really hard to build up my company and I owe something to my colleagues and to our employees! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Arthur has done next to nothing to build or make anything meaningful. He played while I worked my tail off! The government should stop that kind of behavior"
The daughter slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Democrats."
All of you turn around and look back. Let's start where the costs do -- medical schools, medical supplies, medical technology, pharmaceuticals -- are the insurers supposed to not pay for those increases over which they have limited control?
I'm not defending them by any means but the costs start long before they add theirs. Then they have a responsibility to their stock holders just like most corporations. That's called "free enterprise."
ObamaCare may result in a few changes and may appeal politically but it's attacking the head when the tail is wagging the dog.
This is the same as pharmacuetacal (spelling) companies. We forget all the research that goes into developing a new drug plus other costs. We develop them, Canada and Mexico sell them at 1/2 of what America charges. I just think we all need to understand how the system works.
That's something that makes me boiling mad too, our pharmaceutical (spelled correctly ) manufacturers selling drugs to us at full price and then selling the same drugs at a fraction in foreign countries.
This is the same as pharmacuetacal (spelling) companies. We forget all the research that goes into developing a new drug plus other costs. We develop them, Canada and Mexico sell them at 1/2 of what America charges. I just think we all need to understand how the system works.
I doubt group insurance plans are going to escape huge price increases. I believe that employers negotiate contracts with insurers, so the insurer can't increase the prices until the contract comes up for renewal. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
You're right, and group rates have already increased for many. (But the OP opened his thread referring to the rates of individual policy holders being increased by over 50%.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) manufacturers selling drugs to us at full price and then selling the same drugs at a fraction in foreign countries.
