How do you afford to live in California? (Los Angeles, Santa Ana: best cities, amusement parks)

[.highnlite]

Joshua trees only grow in the Mojave desert, unless planted elsewhere.

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by k374

I would say for Southern California the absolute minimum for a family to have a comfortable life is $200,000/yr, for an slightly below average life perhaps $150,000/yr, assuming 2 kids, a house in a safe area with good schools (RIDICULOUSLY expensive!), daycare, taxes and the slew of other day to day expenses.

Any family that earns less than $100,000/yr household income is POOR, no questions about it.

Indeed. Below are some observations I posted today in the Los Angeles forum about how the "$200K/yr minimum" (which I believe is accurate, or possibly somewhat low) actually affects people I've observed:

Of the dozens of people I knew well growing up in Westside LA in the 1970's and 1980's, only five currently own a home in the Los Angeles area. Of those five, three inherited the home (no mortgage) from parents who bought in the late 1950's to early 1970's. The other two are unimaginably house poor and, as I understand it, also several hundred thousand dollars underwater.

The three who inherited think LA is great - love it.

The two who didn't inherit are pretty bummed/irritated but generally resigned to their fate.

The 12-15 who are apartment dwellers in LA (most of whom are unmarried, no kids, with roommates) into their 40's aren't quite sure what hit them and why their life turned out so different from their parents.

The 12-15 who got themselves out of LA all seem to be leading "normal" lives - house with reasonable mortgage on one professional income, married, kids, etc. These people seem to generally reflect the lives their parent's led, with roughly 70-80% lower divorce rate compared to their parents.

Almost all of the persons above have college and/or professional degrees of some sort. The only defining difference between them I can discern is (i) who inherited a house and (ii) whether those who did not inherit stayed in LA or moved out (generally out of CA). Moving to SF or SD would not change the fundamental dynamic, as far as I can tell. Just my personal observation.

[Tex?Il?]

I agree that California is not ideal for family raising. And I very most likely do not see raising and rearing a family in LA. That's what the midwest is for. LA is probably a better place to be single and in your 20s and 30s. But honestly, one can live in the Inland Empire for a much more reasonable cost. Or also Fresno/Bakersfield/Sacramento.

I have basically two reasons why I moved to and at single and 32 love LA.

#1. I want to teach my subject matter (geography and earth science) in a part of the country that has mountains, canyons, a variable coastline, deserts, fruit agriculture, landslides, earthquakes, wildfires, five different climate zones in one metropolitan area, and every exposure of every type of rock. Before you say, are there a lot cheaper, less congested places to do that in the US? Well yeah, but there are enough colleges and universities in LA county, that even with the budget crisis you still have more opportunities than in a small city in the Great Plains, that by regular statistics have a "better economy and lower unemployment rate" but also

#2. LA is a fantastic place to move to if you are single and 30, because by the age of 30 in most other parts of the country (even other urban areas) the herd is thin. The number of smart, cute women who don't have a ring on their finger is amazing. I meet so many people, and have what I would say a more active social life. Most of my friends back home are mostly married. And there is every type of crowd that fits you. Back in the midwest, Chicago may be an exception to the midwest, but there, all the 20s and 30s people are all concentrated in 2 or 3 neighborhoods, and they tend to engage in the same activities every weekend: Go to Cubs/Sox games, hang out in bars until closing time (after 2am), and go to street festival after street festival.

But yeah, I don't see myself starting a family here, but if I was in an area that was better for starting a family, I would feel lonely and isolated, because well, I wouldn't have a family.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Who told you you don't need air con in CA?

I didn't go there, you did. Try cooling your house with an evaporative cooler in Florida.

[.highnlite]

But yeah, I don't see myself starting a family here, but if I was in an area that was better for starting a family, I would feel lonely and isolated, because well, I wouldn't have a family.

California is not Los Angeles, Los Angles, and So Cal are strange swamp things clinging to the coast of CA. As you know, a drive up the coast through the Franciscan Melange, or up 395 along the Sierra Fault, and the vulcanism, and Mono Lake etc, cannot be beat. Hike into the high country and watch for glacial scour, and root pendants. U shaped valleys and V shaped valleys and why.

Can't beat this state. Just get out of Los Angeles before it eats you alive.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by k374

yes, there are many..however, the wildcards that I mentioned were housing and kids. If you don't have those expenses then $100k/yr is plenty.

You should realize that many of the families bought their homes before the serious run up so the housing cost does not apply... for instance a buddy of mine owns a 3000 sqft single family home in Irvine that he bought in 1988 when he was only 25 years old for peanuts and now he owns it free and clear at age 49...it's $900,000 now. He was a Computer Engineer those days and didn't have any big inheritence or come from a rich family either...he bought the home entirely on his own.

Tell me, what 25 year old can buy a $900,000 home today?

Tel me why you think anyone's choices are limited to Irvine or anyplace like it ... And why anyone would be limited to a $900,000 house either.

Oh, you mean you think everyone wants a copy of what is being sold as a cultural benchmark by builders and home magazines ... I get it ... well, actually, no, I don't get it. I didn't have any trouble raising a family of six in a 1400 sq. ft. home with one bath so I'm pretty sure there are lots of other people as capable as me and the wife. Cheese Louise, what people think is required for happiness really chaps my arse.

Originally Posted by .highnlite

California is not Los Angeles, Los Angles, and So Cal are strange swamp things clinging to the coast of CA. As you know, a drive up the coast through the Franciscan Melange, or up 395 along the Sierra Fault, and the vulcanism, and Mono Lake etc, cannot be beat. Hike into the high country and watch for glacial scour, and root pendants. U shaped valleys and V shaped valleys and why.

Can't beat this state. Just get out of Los Angeles before it eats you alive.

Boy, you said a mouthful there. why anyone would want to live in so. California as it is today is beyond my comprehension.

But can it be done on less than even $100,000 a year even with kids? Piece of cake.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

why anyone would want to live in so. California as it is today is beyond my comprehension.

I wouldn't live anywhere else. And I have, yet I'm always drawn back. But every move I make gets me closer to the Mojave. I fully expect to eventually finish out my days in some unpopulated corner of the high desert.

Of course if I had to face the freeways day in and day out, I'd have a different opinion. Thankfully, I can stay put here at Rancho Fontucky and make my living.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

I wouldn't live anywhere else. And I have, yet I'm always drawn back. But every move I make gets me closer to the Mojave. I fully expect to eventually finish out my days in some unpopulated corner of the high desert.

Of course if I had to face the freeways day in and day out, I'd have a different opinion. Thankfully, I can stay put here at Rancho Fontucky and make my living.

Right. I wrote too broadly. I should have specified coastal southern California. My bad ...
I'm in Carlsbad right now. I am quite sure this is the last time I'm driving any further south on the coast than Santa Barbara. Done. Finished. Family and friends down here want to see me again they're going to have to drive nawth.

[k374]

rather than repost all the arguments here is a good summary - and this doesn't take into account layoffs or a 2nd child which would totally destroy this budget to shreds...what about an unforseen medical or other expense? What about dependent expenses - perhaps a sick parent? and of course this doesn't EVEN take into account the fact that people have student loan payments... which MOST people today have.

And for $350,000 you will not get much here in LA, perhaps an old home with potential fixing costs.

Family Budget: How to go Broke on $100,000 a year. Why the Middle Class has a hard time Living in Expensive Urban Areas.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by k374

rather than repost all the arguments here is a good summary - and this doesn't take into account layoffs or a 2nd child which would totally destroy this budget to shreds...what about an unforseen medical or other expense? What about dependent expenses - perhaps a sick parent? and of course this doesn't EVEN take into account the fact that people have student loan payments... which MOST people today have.

And for $350,000 you will not get much here in LA, perhaps an old home with potential fixing costs.

Family Budget: How to go Broke on $100,000 a year. Why the Middle Class has a hard time Living in Expensive Urban Areas.

I can knock $1500 off that budget without breaking a sweat. Start with changing the mortgage interest rate to current rates of below 4% -- or renting.
Car payments? Entertainment? And there's more.