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What exactly do you find to be rubbish? Do you believe that intelligence has nothing to do with success? Do you believe that intelligence has nothing to do with genetics? Which? I don't know about the "liberal view", but the reality based view is that those that are wealthy aren't wealthy because they "work hard", instead they are very intelligent, they were born into a good family, etc.
Do you work hard? I don't....and yet I make more than the vast majority of Americans.
My parents' families in China were fairly wealthy about 100 years ago. Then came the cultural revolution. They lost everything and were forced to perform hard labor for many years.
30 years ago, my dad came to the US with just $500. He went to college, worked, and invested. He didn't even participate in any business ventures, real estate speculation, etc. and now has a little over $1 million. Although that's not quite in the top 1%, he's come a long way from $500; 0 of it came from family support.
Only pointing out the current income tax was sold and started out at only 1% on the super wealthy and now look where we are...
People like user_id don't get this as don't many who find no problem w/ taxation/status_quo... When you realize that the majority of people in the state you are in are like this, and find yourself at the mercy of their lack of concern, that's when you know its time to hit the high road.
The state increased the sales tax 1% for 2 years and people were not rushing out of the state....
I don't have nearly as much problem raising the sales tax... as it stands... most people have a choice when they make a purchase... food, service and medicine are already excluded.
Maybe, with higher acquisition costs... people will not be so wasteful and the landfills won't fill up as fast?
I don't have nearly as much problem raising the sales tax... as it stands... most people have a choice when they make a purchase... food, service and medicine are already excluded.
Maybe, with higher acquisition costs... people will not be so wasteful and the landfills won't fill up as fast?
If you bump sales tax 1% even .. it wont impact consumption behavior much.. people will buy the same amount of junk albeit maybe of less quality...
Or producers, noticing changes in demand will drop the quality to lower the price. At some point, it is just futile to play behavioral games w/ taxes.. that's not what they were meant for.. Oil price shock will solve most of the problems w/ spend happy consumers having too much disposable income ... Markets sort themselves out typically w/o the tax man going all (I need money) under the guise of performing some grand service to society as a behavioral psychologist ..
If you bump sales tax 1% even .. it wont impact consumption behavior much.. people will buy the same amount of junk albeit maybe of less quality...
Or producers, noticing changes in demand will drop the quality to lower the price. At some point, it is just futile to play behavioral games w/ taxes.. that's not what they were meant for.. Oil price shock will solve most of the problems w/ spend happy consumers having too much disposable income ... Markets sort themselves out typically w/o the tax man going behavioral psychologist ..
I worked for a brief time in Germany and Austria and still have friends there...
We would have fascinating discussions comparing the roles of government and the expectations of the citizens...
Both countries have high sales and income taxes... and relatively low to very low property taxes... the sales tax on a new European car at that time was 31% and an imported car from America had a 100% duty...
People still bought cars... they just didn't own as many... most of my colleagues were considered solid middle class professionals and almost all owned a single family car...
When the Iron Curtain came down... major industry rushed in by moving production... lower taxes, incentives and less expensive labor.
In some ways the above is representative of the differences between the States in terms of the cost of doing business.
I worked for a brief time in Germany and Austria and still have friends there...
We would have fascinating discussions comparing the roles of government and the expectations of the citizens...
Both countries have high sales and income taxes... and relatively low to very low property taxes... the sales tax on a new European car at that time was 31% and an imported car from America had a 100% duty...
People still bought cars... they just didn't own as many... most of my colleagues were considered solid middle class professionals and almost all owned a single family car...
When the Iron Curtain came down... major industry rushed in by moving production... lower taxes, incentives and less expensive labor.
In some ways the above is representative of the differences between the States in terms of the cost of doing business.
I spent some time in Germany too !!! Love the hard working culture there.
IMO Germany and Europe's system is not something that can be compared to the states... Germany mainly benefits from the train wreck that other European member's finances are which has much to do w/ its tax/social handout structuring. I had a french roommate's long time Italian friend and German friend visit the U.S for about a week or two.. I took them around alot while here.. Their commentary was that they were amazed to see young people being able to afford a flat in the city.. car.. financial freedom. In respective countries (including) Germany, it's unheard of w/ the level of taxation.
Sure you get some healthcare/education .. but you have no social mobility unless you get lucky.. It's this 'stagnation' that is quite present when one visits Europe and its caused by their heavy handed tax/social system.. which is why the whole EU is on collapse-watch.
In order to change pollution metrics, sales taxes have to increase a lot ...
Marginal increases that impact demand will result in lower quality of the same item.. same bulk garbage.
Taxes wont make the avg. American think or behave like a German. German culture is German culture and is shaped by a long history .. and a matter of fact that 90+% are direct descendants of that long history. Norms and customs get passed down and preserved... Which is indicative of a humble and reflective life.
Your average German is quite involved in politics and matters concerning their country where your avg. American couldn't find a minute to get involved.
When you have one cohesive unit of people working for the good of their fellow members, you can have larger expansions of govt. and services as it goes towards generally agreed goods/norms. When you have a place w/ people from every corner of the earth vying for their own slice w/o care/concern for the larger group... Without being informed/involved.. you have a disaster waiting to happen.
There is a big in-elasticity range of taxation .. changing it even by a percent wont change much here... if you are aiming to target pollution .. a car is a car.. a $50k BMW is just as much on the trash heap as a $20k civic. Sure, you could pretend you are doing a social good for pollution and enact 'consumer punishment' tax ... but its a farce to think it will result in less pollution..
Germans have a long dated history of being humble in their lifestyles... Can't say the same in the states.
Here politicians sell bogus revenue schemes all the time under the 'behavior' change b.s .. all they care about is more revenue and it typically doesn't change shart.
Wasn't it californa that wanted to tax soda/candy an extra $0.03/$0.05 ...? as if that will change behavior.. its all about revenue. Broke and desperate, they'll think of any lie/story to try to sell people on more taxation and from the looks of it .. voters here eat it up. Which on a forward projection is no bueno for me, thus the move.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 02-27-2012 at 04:47 PM..
No, that habit is yours.. if you read the article and not just the silly subject of the thread, you'd understand the tax increase is much broader ..
"Fifty-eight percent support Brown’s plan to raise retail- sales taxes to 7.75 percent from 7.25 percent and increase wage levies on individuals making $250,000 or more, currently at 9.3 percent. Those earning $1 million and up would pay 12.3 percent. More opposed this plan, at 36 percent, than the union initiative, at 31 percent."
I fall in this income bracket from time to time and its one of the reasons I am leaving ...
My response was : if they aren't 'fazed'.. fine, I for one plan on voting for any and all tax increases on any income group as i leave ....
"If they complain, imo, throw the snobby comments at them that are always belted out : "This is the best place on earth.. you can't afford it leave.. you need to pay for this being the best place on earth.. it's not free'."
So, run up the taxes .. sounds great.. and if you think this is the first and only wave and will only impact 'millionaires' which is proved wrong by simply RTFM you're delusional .. Foresight
Foresight (psychology), ability to predict or plan for the future
Some people have it .. some don't. Stay. Pay more taxes and keep singing the same tune. As a voter, I intend to do my part to ensure they are increased and people put their money where there mouth is. Complaints will be met w/ the same silly comment that is belted out :
"You can't afford it? leave .. The sun in california is funded by tax dollars.. Don't pay and suddenly the geography/weather that make this state enjoyable will disappear"
You also can't seem to write more than a couple sentences without degenerating into your usual endless rant on the people who likes living in CA.
I have not encountered anyone who made such a big deal about leaving CA and then subsequently wishing ill on the residents who remained. Why do you care so much? There has to be some type of inferior complex at play here.
Personally, I think CA is doing just fine. Thank you very much.
You also can't seem to write more than a couple sentences without degenerating into your usual endless rant on the people who likes living in CA.
I have not encountered anyone who made such a big deal about leaving CA and then subsequently wishing ill on the residents who remained. Why do you care so much? There has to be some type of inferior complex at play here.
Personally, I think CA is doing just fine. Thank you very much.
.
I think it is fine too .. Love the weather/geography... Pay more taxes and money to live here and enjoy it. That is the general consensus. I don't agree w/ it .. Have been quite vocal about it .. and have put in a lot of effort to inform/educate.. It didn't work.. and am leaving. I wish ill by wishing what everyone wants here? More taxes/costs? So, what everyone wants is ill?
Which is it? I have an inferiority complex because i concede to what the majority wants and want to ensure they get exactly that? LOL
You make your bed on a daily basis and call people names who point out its gonna be a hard one .. Then call them more names because you will have to sleep in it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
Personally, I think CA is doing just fine. Thank you very much.
Stay and pay then .. you don't care for the issues and the problems and how to fix em.. Simple.. stay and pay. You form the dominant consensus and you're gonna get exactly what you desire. All i am saying is Enjoy ...
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 02-27-2012 at 05:41 PM..
I think it is fine too .. Love the weather/geography... Pay more taxes and money to live here and enjoy it. That is the general consensus. I don't agree w/ it .. Have been quite vocal about it .. and have put in a lot of effort to inform/educate.. It didn't work.. and am leaving. I wish ill by wishing what everyone wants here? More taxes/costs? So, what everyone wants is ill?
"Everyone wants"?? Everyone? No, no, no. If you had live here long you'd know that there is no such thing as "everyone wants" in CA. This tax is not a "consensus." Nothing ever is in CA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
Which is it? I have an inferiority complex because i concede to what the majority wants and want to ensure they get exactly that? LOL
You make your bed on a daily basis and call people names who point out its gonna be a hard one .. Then call them more names because you will have to sleep in it?
No. You have an inferior complex because you have the need to brag about yourself while belittling people. A confident person doesn't do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
Stay and pay then .. you don't care for the issues and the problems and how to fix em.. Simple.. stay and pay. You form the dominant consensus and you're gonna get exactly what you desire. All i am saying is Enjoy ...
I don't care for the issues and the problems? Again, you need to stop with this idea that you can read minds.
Are you actually implying that the $250k range qualifies as wealthy? If so, then you have truly lost your mind.
I was implying that it isn't middle-class, but only 1.5% of households in the US make $250k or more. I don't know....it would seem like the top 1.5% earners in the country should be concerned "wealthy".
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Love the hard working culture there.
