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Old 03-02-2012, 10:54 AM
 
60 posts, read 59,056 times
Reputation: 51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Only a reply to your statement about the about the old carrot trick and YES... one day you too can be rich or well to do and be worth a million dollars...

I've seen it... it still happens and no amount rhetoric can prove there are not people from modest backgrounds becoming millionaires...

Heck... there are reported up to 500 new millionaires just from Google...
The odds of anybody becoming "Rich" are nearly impossible. I live comfortable and don't need to be rich so to speak. Also many of the people who are currently very wealthy inherited that money, they didn't work for it. I.E. Donald Trump, Mitt Romney all the Candy/food and Cereal families. Inherited. My goal in life is not to be rich and even if I was I'd have no problem paying some more taxes.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,093,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
This simply boils down to you feel the working class should carry the bulk of the burden, while "entities" should continue to act as cover for wealthy individuals.
This is what it comes down to, but its not usually how these people "feel". After all, the people that advocate these policies the loudest are the very people that would suffer the burden. The right has employed perhaps one of the most successful propaganda campaigns in US industry, its effectiveness is utterly amusing. It has changed the entire debate, not only on the right, but on the left as well. It has totally crippled the left because the left is forced to speak in the framework setup by the right.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,093,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Informers View Post
The odds of anybody becoming "Rich" are nearly impossible.
Of course what is being talked about here is so called "rags to riches" and that is indeed rare, but the odds of becoming rich depend entirely on the individuals genes and family. Becoming rich when you're born into a rich family isn't nearly impossible, but instead the likely course of events.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:05 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Informers View Post
The odds of anybody becoming "Rich" are nearly impossible. I live comfortable and don't need to be rich so to speak. Also many of the people who are currently very wealthy inherited that money, they didn't work for it. I.E. Donald Trump, Mitt Romney all the Candy/food and Cereal families. Inherited. My goal in life is not to be rich and even if I was I'd have no problem paying some more taxes.
Does anyone know the definition of rich?

I suppose it depends on context... still remember a guy in High School that worked a summer in the fish cannery in Alaska... he worked 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for about 6 weeks...

When he came home he bought a new Camaro... we all said he was rich.... and to us living in Oakland CA... he was... no one else at school had a new car... we were lucky to have a car at all.

I don't think inherited money is all that it is made out to be... at least one study said the chances of inherited wealth surviving the third generation are slim... mostly because they didn't earn it...

Didn't the last census show more households joining the million dollar club than every before and I doubt it is due to wealthy having lots of children...
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:09 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Of course what is being talked about here is so called "rags to riches" and that is indeed rare, but the odds of becoming rich depend entirely on the individuals genes and family. Becoming rich when you're born into a rich family isn't nearly impossible, but instead the likely course of events.
Or one could win the Lottery

My brother worked with a ranch hand that lived in a old decrepit 20 foot travel trailer... he won 50 million in the California lottery after buying 5 tickets...

I have no idea how he is doing... he did marry a lawyer and last time I saw him... which was at least 15 years ago... they had his and hers matching SL Mercedes Convertibles.

I did hear that he bought a ranch in Idaho/Montana on the border... so he is still or was ranching...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 03-02-2012 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:18 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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Side comment...

I think the belief there isn't much a person can do to change their lot in life is a real disservice and a cop out.

It is way to easy to use this as an excuse and sadly I find many more are going this direction.

Maybe I was lucky... those around me tended to be frugal and much older than myself.

Many had a total aversion to debt... my own Grandparents reaction to my Sears credit card at age 18 would have made people think I had just robbed a bank or killed someone... it was that strong.

My Great Great aunt lived on Social Security and a very small survivor benefit from her husband being killed in the war... she was the sweetest old lady.

Come the first of the month.. you could set your calender... she would make her rounds in her old Rambler to pay all her bills... water, gas, telephone... etc...

Old people that lived through hard times were never comfortable being in debt... at least the ones in my circle...

My Step Grandfather had a plaque in his office about success... it said something like having a dollar and owing 99 cents is success... having a dollar and owing $1.01 is ruin... the point being the monetary difference is very small...

I never heard any of them belittle or begrudge someone for being wealthy...
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:56 PM
 
60 posts, read 59,056 times
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Isn't Rich anything over 250K as a solo earner? Rich is relative. 250K to me is rich because there is really nothing you can't do with that kind of income. Other than buy silly things like planes etc. Silicon Valley made many of those millionaires but in the grand scheme of things their numbers are small when you take in account the whole us population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Does anyone know the definition of rich?

I suppose it depends on context... still remember a guy in High School that worked a summer in the fish cannery in Alaska... he worked 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for about 6 weeks...

When he came home he bought a new Camaro... we all said he was rich.... and to us living in Oakland CA... he was... no one else at school had a new car... we were lucky to have a car at all.

I don't think inherited money is all that it is made out to be... at least one study said the chances of inherited wealth surviving the third generation are slim... mostly because they didn't earn it...

Didn't the last census show more households joining the million dollar club than every before and I doubt it is due to wealthy having lots of children...
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:29 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Informers View Post
Isn't Rich anything over 250K as a solo earner? Rich is relative. 250K to me is rich because there is really nothing you can't do with that kind of income. Other than buy silly things like planes etc. Silicon Valley made many of those millionaires but in the grand scheme of things their numbers are small when you take in account the whole us population.
Well it is comforting to know that I have never been anywhere near rich...

I just pulled up a copy of the first 1040 Tax Return from 1913 at the IRS website...

Interesting to know back the day... income under 20k was not taxed and income from 20 to 50k was taxed at 1%...

The highest tax rate of 6% was paid on income of 500k and over...

Back in 1913 20k would have bought 5 to 7 new homes in my city... which currently in today's market would take at least two million if not a lot more...

Henry Ford shook the labor market back then when he offered the unheard of living wage of $5 a day or about $1200 a year...

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/1913.pdf
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:52 PM
 
434 posts, read 849,546 times
Reputation: 516
Interesting to see losers say that you can't get rich except by inheritance or by having super genes. Maybe it is hopeless for them. But it does not have to be for you. Do something better than anyone else, work hard at it and keep improving. Find a field where what you are doing is scalable - capable of being expanded. From one barber shop to 5 then to 20 then to 50.

My wife and I started a business with $5000 of our cash plus $5000 more borrowed from her parents. Neither of us came from wealthy families. Neither of us had a college degree. We worked 12-14 hour days for ten years before we could afford to hire good help to take over some of the work load. Our company has created six millionaires. And more to come. That is if we can keep the stinkin liberals from stealing our hard-earned money. Every dollar that they steal is one dollar less available to grow our business and hire more employees.

Pay no attention to the losers who say success is impossible unless you come from a wealthy family or have super genes. That is just bs that they throw out to paint successful people as not deserving the wealth they have earned. They tell you that successful people are just a bunch of lazy investors who lucked into their success.

We are not alone. I know several other families who have achieved success in their fields. And they did it through hard work. Not by getting government hand-outs or by sitting around crying that it is too hard.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,093,812 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I think the belief there isn't much a person can do to change their lot in life is a real disservice and a cop out.
And yet...this belief is well supported by the data. Social mobility in the US is rather low, most people end up roughly like their parents. Does this mean you should take this as a death sentence? Of course not, an individual should do whatever they can to succeed....but we aren't talking about self-help...instead public policy. Public policy needs to be based on social realities....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I never heard any of them belittle or begrudge someone for being wealthy...
Who is belittling the wealthy? The generation you are talking about is the generation that supported top federal tax rates of 70~90%, those rates weren't decreased until the 1980's when the next generation (the baby boomers) started to gain political power.

So contrary to the picture you are trying to paint the people from that era were more uncomfortable, not less, with wealth and its distribution throughout society.

So let's bring up some of that lovin'....and increase the top federal taxes back up to ~70% and we can increase the state rates while we are at it.
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