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Did Fresno hit on your wife at a bar or something? Who cares if it's lame? Are you actually trying to be helpful or just trying to take a dump on a place?
Just trying to put up some useful info. I never said anything about the people of Fresno or anything really opinionated. Just facts and figures.
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Originally Posted by DMenscha
You forgot the fog.
I looked it up. Fresno, CA averages 39 days of fog a year. January and December each average foggy 12 day.
I find lists interesting too. Here's some different ones about the items mentioned plus some additional lists at the bottom.
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Fresno is the 29th most expensive metro area (out of 361) in the U.S. according to Kiplinger (Updated July 2012)
That ranking number is off. They only had actual cost of living numbers for 231 cities.
Some California metropolitan areas more expensive than Fresno were missing COL including Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, Ventura, Santa Rosa, Napa, etc.
Lets just list the California metro areas from that site that did have a number instead of trying to rank with incomplete data Cost of living (number is cost of living compared to US average of 100):
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara - 151
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont - 150
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana - 138
San Diego-San Marcos - 131
Riverside/San Bernardino - 117
Sacramento/Roseville - 116
Fresno - 109
Bakersfield - 99
Yep, its expensive to live in California. But those other areas have their own negative problems even with the higher cost of living.
1. Weather. That site used in the original post for crime info? It ranks Fresno weather as better than San Diego and other California cities.
That site's weather rankings:
Fresno 8.2 out of 10
Los Angeles 8.2/10
Long Beach 8.1/10
San Diego 8/10
Sacramento 7.7/10
San Francisco 7/10
2. Air Quality? California Metropolitan areas tend to dominate the top of those lists anyway due to geography and weather. It costs more in Southern California to get worse air quality.
Ranked By Ozone Pollution
#1: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA
#2: Visalia-Porterville, CA
#3: Bakersfield-Delano, CA
#4: Fresno-Madera, CA
#5: Hanford-Corcoran, CA
#6: Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Yuba City, CA-NV
#7: San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA
By Particulate Pollution:
#1: Bakersfield-Delano, CA
#2: Hanford-Corcoran, CA
#3: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA
#4: Visalia-Porterville, CA
#5: Fresno-Madera, CA
#6: Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA
#7: Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ
3. Unemployment
California ranks as 3rd worse state (3rd highest unemployment). So the entire state is considered bad compared to the rest of the country. Local Area Unemployment Statistics Home Page
The State EDD lists individual cities in California, and much of the state is still only a point or two better or even worse. June 2012 Unemployment Rates:
Fresno - 14.3%
Clovis - 8.2%
San Francisco - 7.8%
San Jose - 9.7%
Sacramento - 12.9%
Roseville - 10.0%
Los Angeles - 12.2%
Long Beach - 12.2%
Riverside - 12.7%
Ontario - 13.4%
San Bernardino - 16.9%
San Diego - 9.2%
Chula Vista - 10.8%
Stockton - 18%
Oxnard - 12.2%
Ventura - 8.3% City Labor Force-Unemploy Rate,
4. Drivers. Here are lists where Fresno ranked among the best drivers.
Allstate's 2011 Best Driver's Report (best driving city to worse city out of 200 US cities):
65. Fresno
72. Santa Rosa
81. Fontana (couldn't resist listing this one )
113. Riverside
117. San Diego
134. Long Beach
136. San Jose
140. Sacramento
160. Irvine
182. Los Angeles
185. San Francisco
That's a sampling, more California cities are on the full list at: http://allstatenewsroom.com/releases...f-72454729bd0a
California Office of Traffic Safety's composite ranking of California's 13 largest cities (worse accident rate to safest):
1. Sacramento
2. Los Angeles
3. Santa Ana
4. Stockton
5. Anaheim
6. San Francisco
7. Oakland
8. Bakersfield
9. San Jose
10. Riverside
11. San Diego
12. Long Beach
13. Fresno (safest of the 13 largest cities)
All California cities ranked by population size group and type of accident at: http://www.ots.ca.gov/media_and_rese...gs/default.asp
5. Crime? This list shows Fresno's violent crime rate is lower than San Francisco or Sacramento and similiar to Long Beach (number of violent crimes per 1,000 residents) among the 10 larger cities:
Oakland - 15.3
Sacramento - 8.7
San Francisco - 7.02
Fresno - 6.26
Long Beach - 5.88
Los Angeles - 5.59
Santa Ana - 4.44
San Diego - 4.28
Anaheim - 3.43
San Jose - 3.31 FBI stats: Crime in California - San Francisco Business Times
6. Educational Attainment? Not sure if you are trying to equate people's value as human beings to that info or what. My father-in-law dropped out of high school to take a job to help his parents financially support his younger siblings (and he didn't even live around Fresno). I would never think my grad school education makes me a better person than him.
But now, for some fun, here are a few more lists:
Fresno wasn't on the list of Most Miserable Cities this year, but 6 other California cities were: 2012 Forbes 20 Most Miserable Cities
5. Sacramento, CA
11. Stockton, CA
15. Merced, CA
17. Bakersfield, CA
18. Vallejo, CA
19. Modesto, CA America's Most Miserable Cities - Forbes
Cities Where Singles Over 50 Years Old Are Most Romantic:
1.Scottsdale, AZ
2.Long Beach, CA
3.Fresno, CA
4.Henderson, NV
5.Naples, FL
6.Knoxville, TN
7.Mesa, AZ
8.Birmingham, AL
9.West Palm Beach, FL
10.Colorado Springs, CO http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/news/loca...ties-us/nPp6B/
And ideas coming out of Fresno are being considered very creative, I just read several Florida cities are now copying a Fresno event:
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""I heard about it on NPR, back in October of last year," says Belle Forino, event organizer for Swede Fest Palm Beach. "I thought, Oh, my God, this sounds so fun, so cutting-edge, so creative. I'd love to get that in our area. So I contacted the Swede Fest guys out in Fresno, and we chatted for a month or so and got the trademark." http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/countygrind/2012/08/swede_fest_palm_beach_august_3.php
I'm glad you showed up FresnoFacts. As I've said in several other Fresno bashing threads - I like the couple years I lived there. Every place has its pluses and minuses.
FresnoFacts, I live in Fresno and have for a long time (decades). And I've found your posts and this forum useful for years too as a lurker. I don't even hate Fresno.
Actually, I've lived and traveled all over and I see some of the good about Fresno. For instance, I don't like our summers but can't stand the humidity I've encountered in the U.S. South and East Coast during their summers.
However, you have to admit that while some of your points are excellent, such as comparing Fresno to larger cities like LA and SF being a case of apples and oranges, some of your points represent wishful thinking.
There's no denying there are some bad things about Fresno and juxtaposing them against certain other "bad or worse" items doesn't negate that. There's nothing wrong about posting figures about the city so those considering coming or leaving have that data. So thanks for some of the items you pointed out. And see some of my comments inline below. FresnoFacts' comments will be in italics.
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I find lists interesting too. Here's some different ones about the items mentioned plus some additional lists at the bottom.
That ranking number is off. They only had actual cost of living numbers for 231 cities.
Some California metropolitan areas more expensive than Fresno were missing COL including Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, Ventura, Santa Rosa, Napa, etc.
Lets just list the California metro areas from that site that did have a number instead of trying to rank with incomplete data Cost of living (number is cost of living compared to US average of 100):
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara - 151
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont - 150
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana - 138
San Diego-San Marcos - 131
Riverside/San Bernardino - 117
Sacramento/Roseville - 116
Fresno - 109
Bakersfield - 99
Yep, its expensive to live in California. But those other areas have their own negative problems even with the higher cost of living.
Good point, FF. Yes, California as a whole is expensive. In fact, that's my point -- Fresno isn't cheap. Fresno's COL index is 109 (which is listed on the link I provided), so while it's cheaper than California's coastal areas its COL is higher than the U.S. average, which is an index of 100. Comparing Fresno to coastal areas isn't a great comparison anyway. Apples and oranges. You can live in a larger inland place like Dallas for less (Dallas has a COL index of 94). You often compare Fresno in terms of size to Dayton, OH, which has an index of 93. I encourage readers to go to Sperling's and do a COL comparison against those cities and others to see what their current income in Fresno would be equivalent to elsewhere. Considering what it costs to live in Fresno, you certainly don't get all the opportunities you get in other costly cities but you do get many of the same problems.
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1. Weather. That site used in the original post for crime info? It ranks Fresno weather as better than San Diego and other California cities.
That site's weather rankings:
Fresno 8.2 out of 10
Los Angeles 8.2/10
Long Beach 8.1/10
San Diego 8/10
Sacramento 7.7/10
San Francisco 7/10
Fresno's High Temperature forecast as of August 6, 2012 for the period August 6, 2012 through August 13, 2012, according to the Weather Channel:
No, it won't be humid, but that's hot no matter how you slice it. You can try to make it seem less bad by comparing those temps to that of Las Vegas (106, 108, 109, 109 the next four days) or Phoenix (109, 109, 113, 113) or Palm Springs (109, 108, 111, 113) or Baghdad, Iraq (111, 113, 115, 113), I suppose. But people don't think of California as having such hot weather, so it's fair to let them know. And some places regarded as being HOT will have temps that are similar to those of Fresno these next few days, so that means at the very least that Fresno has to potential to be nearly as hot sometimes as those places regarded widely as being very hot.
I would say Fresno has nice springs and autumns, though they are unpredictable and sometimes short.
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2. Air Quality? California Metropolitan areas tend to dominate the top of those lists anyway due to geography and weather. It costs more in Southern California to get worse air quality.
Ranked By Ozone Pollution
#1: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA
#2: Visalia-Porterville, CA
#3: Bakersfield-Delano, CA
#4: Fresno-Madera, CA
#5: Hanford-Corcoran, CA
#6: Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Yuba City, CA-NV
#7: San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA
By Particulate Pollution:
#1: Bakersfield-Delano, CA
#2: Hanford-Corcoran, CA
#3: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA
#4: Visalia-Porterville, CA
#5: Fresno-Madera, CA
#6: Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA
#7: Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ
Red herring. So what if SoCal has worse air and costs more? Just like you say, SoCal's much, much bigger than Fresno, so it isn't a great comparison. Fresno's nearly just as poor air comes at a fraction of the population -- a half million metro area population vs. one of nearly 13 million. Bad air is bad air. Yes, some of the issue is geography-driven but whatever the cause the fact is that Fresno's air quality is poor for much of the year. And it comes at a price. There are 75,000 asthma sufferers here out of a population of 900,000. That asthma stat comes from Time magazine's article "The 10 Most Air-Polluted Cities in the U.S." if you want to look it up. The Fresno Bee itself has run numerous articles on the area's poor air quality and asthma issues. To its credit, things have improved slightly recently in the Fresno area.
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3. Unemployment
California ranks as 3rd worse state (3rd highest unemployment). So the entire state is considered bad compared to the rest of the country. Local Area Unemployment Statistics Home Page
The State EDD lists individual cities in California, and much of the state is still only a point or two better or even worse. June 2012 Unemployment Rates:
Fresno - 14.3%
Clovis - 8.2%
San Francisco - 7.8%
San Jose - 9.7%
Sacramento - 12.9%
Roseville - 10.0%
Los Angeles - 12.2%
Long Beach - 12.2%
Riverside - 12.7%
Ontario - 13.4%
San Bernardino - 16.9%
San Diego - 9.2%
Chula Vista - 10.8%
Stockton - 18%
Oxnard - 12.2%
Ventura - 8.3% City Labor Force-Unemploy Rate,
I'm glad you pointed out Cali's overall problem, FF.
The Central Valley has bad employment numbers in a bad economy. Fresno's job numbers are among the worst in the state, which in turn is among the worst in the nation. There's nothing wrong about pointing that out. Shifting sources of "data" isn't a true argument, especially when the one I cited, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, is legit and the data is current.
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4. Drivers. Here are lists where Fresno ranked among the best drivers.
Allstate's 2011 Best Driver's Report (best driving city to worse city out of 200 US cities):
65. Fresno
72. Santa Rosa
81. Fontana (couldn't resist listing this one )
113. Riverside
117. San Diego
134. Long Beach
136. San Jose
140. Sacramento
160. Irvine
182. Los Angeles
185. San Francisco
That's a sampling, more California cities are on the full list at: http://allstatenewsroom.com/releases...f-72454729bd0a
California Office of Traffic Safety's composite ranking of California's 13 largest cities (worse accident rate to safest):
1. Sacramento
2. Los Angeles
3. Santa Ana
4. Stockton
5. Anaheim
6. San Francisco
7. Oakland
8. Bakersfield
9. San Jose
10. Riverside
11. San Diego
12. Long Beach
13. Fresno (safest of the 13 largest cities)
All California cities ranked by population size group and type of accident at: California Office of Traffic Safety (OTS) - Grants
Cherry picking. Now should I go ahead and try to find more sites with rankings showing Fresno with bad drivers? And do remember that public transportation is lacking in Fresno. Plus everything is spread out. So you'll have to drive a lot, which will increase your risk.
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5. Crime? This list shows Fresno's violent crime rate is lower than San Francisco or Sacramento and similiar to Long Beach (number of violent crimes per 1,000 residents) among the 10 larger cities:
Oakland - 15.3
Sacramento - 8.7
San Francisco - 7.02
Fresno - 6.26
Long Beach - 5.88
Los Angeles - 5.59
Santa Ana - 4.44
San Diego - 4.28
Anaheim - 3.43
San Jose - 3.31 FBI stats: Crime in California - San Francisco Business Times
Those are 2010 stats you provided, FF.
There's no denying that Fresno is in the top 10 (if not #1) in auto thefts.
In fact, check out the Forbes article "The Cities with the Most Stolen Cars," which it published on June 19, 2012. Fresno ranks as #1 in car thefts. Here's a quote from the article:
"Top of the heap this year is Fresno, Calif. It’s not exactly a surprise—Fresno sat at the top last year and has been in the top 10 every year after 2007, when it ranked No. 11."
Or that it's a meth capital. Just Google "Horrific murder no surprise in U.S. meth capital" and look at the article about a gruesome Fresno murder this year.
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6. Educational Attainment? Not sure if you are trying to equate people's value as human beings to that info or what. My father-in-law dropped out of high school to take a job to help his parents financially support his younger siblings (and he didn't even live around Fresno). I would never think my grad school education makes me a better person than him.
No, not doing that at all -- another red herring. I know some "educated" (read: degreed) people that aren't that bright and vice versa. I don't rate a person's worth by whether or not they have a degree. But there's no denying that Fresno isn't an educational mecca. There aren't a huge number of universities here. Fresno has CSUF, Fresno Pacific, Fresno City College, and SJVC, Heald, DeVry, ITT, and University of Phoenix.
Boston's population is about 625,000 vs. Fresno's 500,000 but Boston has many more post-secondary educational institutions than Fresno:
From Wikipedia's "List of colleges and universities in metropolitan Boston" article:
There are a total of 52 institutions of higher education in the defined region, including 7 junior colleges, 14 colleges that primarily grant baccalaureate and master's degrees, 8 research universities, and 23 special-focus institutions. Of these, 50 are non-profit organizations while 3 are for-profit businesses, and 48 are private ventures while 5 are public institutions (4 are run by the state of Massachusetts and 1 is operated by the city of Quincy).
Now of course that's not an ideal comparison as Boston is a much older and wealthier city. But it shows how a place not terribly larger places a lot of emphasis on training and education.
Also, there's no denying that Fresno suffers from a "brain drain" because it's not a place that provides many opportunities for those with an education. That issue of trained people leaving Fresno is well-documented. Just look at some Fresno City Hall minutes or Fresno Bee articles.
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But now, for some fun, here are a few more lists:
Fresno wasn't on the list of Most Miserable Cities this year, but 6 other California cities were: 2012 Forbes 20 Most Miserable Cities
5. Sacramento, CA
11. Stockton, CA
15. Merced, CA
17. Bakersfield, CA
18. Vallejo, CA
19. Modesto, CA America's Most Miserable Cities - Forbes
Cities Where Singles Over 50 Years Old Are Most Romantic:
1.Scottsdale, AZ
2.Long Beach, CA
3.Fresno, CA
4.Henderson, NV
5.Naples, FL
6.Knoxville, TN
7.Mesa, AZ
8.Birmingham, AL
9.West Palm Beach, FL
10.Colorado Springs, CO El Paso voted 8th in least romantic cities in US | www.kfoxtv.com
And ideas coming out of Fresno are being considered very creative, I just read several Florida cities are now copying a Fresno event:
Saying Fresno wasn't in some of the "bad" lists isn't much a selling point.
Here are some other lists to bring up, while we're at it:
Downtowns
Another thing to keep in mind is Fresno's downtown, which is widely considered as being sub-par (to put it nicely). Do a Google search for "worst large city downtowns in the United States" and you'll see several articles just on the first page listing Fresno's downtown as being pretty bad, if not the worst, among large cities. Even city-data.com forum posts show up in the search results that attest to that.
Drunkeness
In 2010 Men's Health ranked Fresno as "America's Drunkest City." Fresno had the most liver disease, most DUI arrests, and most DUI-related deaths.
Last edited by HereThereEveryware; 08-06-2012 at 12:04 PM..
Wow.. Fresno is a a short drive to the some of the most spectacular and scenic mountains on planet earth !!!!!!!!! Helloooooooo?
Dayton Ohio... comparison... Lol
City slicker there...... here there everywhere hey?
Wow.. Fresno is a a short drive to the some of the most spectacular and scenic mountains on planet earth !!!!!!!!! Helloooooooo?
Dayton Ohio... comparison... Lol
City slicker there...... here there everywhere hey?
Yes, I'm quite aware of the of the proximity of the Sierra Nevadas and the several lakes and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia, King Canyon) that they host. I've been to each of those nat'l parks many times and love them. That said, how does that justify or impact the cost of living index for Fresno? I compared Fresno to Dayton because that's a comparison that FresnoFacts often makes. Dayton isn't too far from Indianapolis. Could it not, then, have a higher cost of living due to its proximity to that large city that features professional sports? Or from its own major Air Force base and aerospace museum? Even Lake Erie is only 150 miles away from it. Does that count, too?
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