The Big "California Housing Prices" thread (was:Home prices are not going down, so why stay if you can't afford it? (San Francisco: real estate, to rent)
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Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper
I was in Flagstaff, Sedona and Paige. Georgous there clean air, only crowded in Sedona, no traffic.
Yeah, those are small towns, and good luck trying to live in Flag or Sedona if you aren't independently wealthy. All the workers in Sedona have to live in Cottonwood and commute, and the workers of Flagstaff who don't work for the city government/WL Gore/NAU are poor.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer
The problem is you are looking at them very 'one' dimensionally - the way the spend their money. If it was really that simple these folks could just move to Blythe or some other dive town and problem solved, easy as that, right? But there really is more to their lives than that which keeps them where they are. They actually have to 'want' to live that town. What you are anyone else thinks is irrelevant if their life sucks living there. Sure, they're saving some money but at that point its irrelevant. So no, its not as simple as you make it out to be. What if all their friends and family live in CA and they're not willing to give that up among other things. What about their jobs? Can they just pick up and go somewhere else easy as that? Can they find a job with equivalent pay that they enjoy? How do you known they wouldn't squander their new extra money on other frivolous things booze and gambling instead of retirement savings? And there are many more variables to consider in your simplistic fix to their situation.
The financial success is one that some people don't factor in.
I moved from the Bay Area.
The cost of living was a big factor in where I am today. It made enough of a difference that I was able to retire very comfortably early. I could retire in Ca, but would be living a much more modest life.
Last Nov I was back in Ca while being in escrow to buy a house here in Marietta. To get the same type of house where I used to Live in Ca would cost me a down payment of about $300K and almost $8000K a month for PITI. Here it cost me $95K down and less than $2400 a month piti.
If you took that $205K saving in down payment and invested the difference and the lower monthly payment of $5600 and got a return of 8% in 10 years you would have $1,486,354.
In 15 years you would have $2,628,651. I could project to 20 or more years, but you get the idea.
For a lot of people that is enough money to retire on. So for some people trading off the weather in Ca it might be worth it to be able to retire or be financially free in 10 to 15 years instead of working for the next 40. I see a lot of people here on CD saying how they hate work, wish they could retire early, or are simply afraid of not being able to retire.
Moving out of state and possibly having a lower QOL (although it is debatable depending on the person) can have a huge impact on one's life. I love Ca and could afford to live there, but not at the price it would cost financially and freedom wise.
I have everything here that I had in Ca except the beach ( which I never went to at all living in Ca) and the moderate weather ( here in Ga the summers are a bit brutal, but for the lifestyle I have now, it's worth the 3 months-I have enough extra money to live elsewhere in the world where the weather is good during that time if I wish).
I do understand that weather is important to some. However if you are not outside all the time how much of a factor is it? While summers are hot and humid here in Georgia, the summer was sufficiently hot enough in Pleasanton California to not go out an exercise.
The weather here is not as nice as California, but I am amazed at how many people are still outside going for walks and runs and hikes in this weather. I see more people outdoors than I did living in California. Maybe people just adapt?
Friends and family may be even more important than weather. Having that social network trumps weather.
All These have to balanced with financial needs.
And this is exactly why I want to/plan to leave SD/CA this year! I make $64,000 as an Accountant, not a CPA and I'm 41. I'll never be able to buy a house here, I have no friends or family here, so why stay? Well, a husband who loves it here because it's warm. Compared to Colorado our supermarkets are so small...sometimes I can't even find a parking space. I avoid shopping at the malls. Yes - the weather is nice....but I miss the 4 seasons....
Where do you guys get the COL index and comparison?
Very well said Aslowdodge. It is so refreshing to see someone make an objective argument and back it up with actual numbers (I appreciate someone with a strong aptitude for math). There is little to debate there. With the amount of money that you will save, there is little doubt that you will enjoy every amenity life has to offer. An early retirement and the financial freedom to travel anywhere you want easily trumps you staying in CA.
I also agree on the QOL comments. It's hard to imagine someone making a case to move out to some remote area in CA and thinking that will give the same QOL. First off, just like moving out of state, the job also has to be in the new location in CA. And if someone is thinking of commuting, then a commute of 1 1/2+ hours doesn't making me believe that's much of a QOL (I can think of lots of things I'd rather do than sit in traffic r/t for 3+ hours a day). And of course, there are exceptions such as people being able to work from home (but those are few and far between). For most people I know, financial independence and QOL go hand-in-hand.
acctgirl, this is one of my favorite COL calculators
I just dont buy that.
According to the map, for example, Yellowstone and areas around it get D or F.
By any measure, air quality there is pretty pristine.
I think they are applying some ridiculously high standards.
It surprised me, as well. The map came from the EPA site so I don't know how they measure their standards. Maybe they're manipulating the data. Seems to be a regular thing in today's world.
And this is exactly why I want to/plan to leave SD/CA this year! I make $64,000 as an Accountant, not a CPA and I'm 41. I'll never be able to buy a house here, I have no friends or family here, so why stay? Well, a husband who loves it here because it's warm. Compared to Colorado our supermarkets are so small...sometimes I can't even find a parking space. I avoid shopping at the malls. Yes - the weather is nice....but I miss the 4 seasons....
Where do you guys get the COL index and comparison?
Scroll down until they give the State by State info
I always find those fun to read, but pretty useless.
It would be great if they chose smaller areas as we all know every state has a huge range in the col.
Yeah, those are small towns, and good luck trying to live in Flag or Sedona if you aren't independently wealthy. All the workers in Sedona have to live in Cottonwood and commute, and the workers of Flagstaff who don't work for the city government/WL Gore/NAU are poor.
If you have skills you can live anywhere. For instance our jeep tour guide in Sedona used to work on submarines in the navy. Another for instance truck drivers (you) can get hired anywhere.
I always find those fun to read, but pretty useless.
It would be great if they chose smaller areas as we all know every state has a huge range in the col.
There are a few that do it by city. If I find one again I will post it.
The financial success is one that some people don't factor in.
I moved from the Bay Area. The cost of living was a big factor in where I am today. It made enough of a difference that I was able to retire very comfortably early. I could retire in Ca, but would be living a much more modest life.
...
I have everything here that I had in Ca except the beach ( which I never went to at all living in Ca) and the moderate weather ( here in Ga the summers are a bit brutal, but for the lifestyle I have now, it's worth the 3 months-I have enough extra money to live elsewhere in the world where the weather is good during that time if I wish).
I do understand that weather is important to some. However if you are not outside all the time how much of a factor is it? While summers are hot and humid here in Georgia, the summer was sufficiently hot enough in Pleasanton California to not go out an exercise.
The weather here is not as nice as California, but I am amazed at how many people are still outside going for walks and runs and hikes in this weather. I see more people outdoors than I did living in California. Maybe people just adapt? Friends and family may be even more important than weather. Having that social network trumps weather.
All These have to balanced with financial needs.
Great points, aslowdodge. One really has to balance *all* these factors when considering a move or simply deciding to stay put.
I have read your story on here before and glad things worked out for you the way that they have. I know there are quite a few folks moving from the Bay area who are cashing out and selling their small, older homes for $1.x+ million. Then they take that money to another location and retire early in some cases like you have.
I'm glad you brought up the points about QOL related to other things important to you. For example, you mentioned you didn't go to the beach much while living in CA. I know that is true for many residents for a number of reasons. Maybe they work long hours and their work is basically their life with little free time beyond the basics (gym, shopping, kids' soccer games, etc..). Therefore they don't get outside much anyway to other places like the beach or mountains. On the other hand, there are others like us who take full advantage of the outdoors they live near on a daily basis. And so for us QOL means excellent year round outdoor opportunities including access to the coast and mountains. For the next family it could be something else like close proximity to rivers or deserts. While other are looking for more conservative climates, more gun freedoms, etc... For families with kids excellent schools are also important including good colleges near by.
That being said, we are also looking at the financial end of things as one of 'many' factors. The trick is finding the best balance of all the other things one deems important while saving some money in the process. For some that could be accomplished through staying in CA and moving to places like Sacramento, Fresno, Chico, the Sierra foothills, etc... While for others moving out of state makes the most sense given jobs opportunities and other amenities available to them.
While in CO we enjoyed many outdoor opportunities including the Rocky Mountains. However, the lack of a beach within driving distance became a deal breaker for us among other things such as the weather. However, my wife's sister moved there with her family and still lives there today. They were never big beach goers, hikers, etc... So when the weather turns bad they just do more indoor stuff. Its like living near the coast in CA. Folks are paying a premium for something they don't really take advantage very often. So its kind of a waste of money in that regard like a gym membership one never uses. But for those who love the sea living land locked 100s of miles inland is a non starter.
Lastly, I find your observations interesting in seeing more people outside than you did where you lived in CA. I guess that's relative in part to where you lived here. Near the coast we always see people outside. In fact we have cruise ships that park in front our our house to enjoy the Monterey bay. But for places like the Silicon Valley where tech workers are doing 60-70+ hours a week they don't have as much time outside of work. So you probably wouldn't see as many outside enjoying the mild weather. But I also a agree with you to a point that for the truly outdoor loving die hard folks, they learn to adapt to harsher climates (excessively hot, humidity or cold). For those who are not die hards it can be a hindrance. Who wants to go out and run, play golf or tennis in triple degree weather or in freezing temperatures? I know I don't.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 05-05-2018 at 03:30 PM..
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Seems to be a regular thing in today's world.
