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The whole YES ON 22 campaign is very shady. I am voting a big fat NO. The way 22 is written and the phony "non-profit" status is disgusting, along with the super-majority attempt to make it a forever law. No thanks.
"Gig companies pony up millions more as Prop. 22 approaches $200M mark, as of 10/23/20 (story at sfgate.com)
On Thursday, Uber, Postmates and Instacart anteed up another $9.2 million in their effort to persuade voters to pass Proposition 22, according to late contribution reports filed with California Secretary of State Alex Padilla."
Prop. 22 would prevent gig-economy drivers in California from being classified as employees. Currently, app-based ride-hail and delivery businesses are not required to provide health care, minimum wage, paid sick leave and unemployment insurance, all of which are mandated by state law for employees.
With the new contributions, Yes on Proposition 22 has received at least $195 million, more than 18 times the $10.7 million raised by the labor union-backed No on Prop 22 campaign through Sept. 23.
Also, if the law passes, it can never be changed, due to the language in the bill.
The profit is for the companies, not the employees.
"Prop. 22 does ensure some new benefits for drivers, including “120% of minimum wage,” but that only applies to “engaged time,” when a driver has a fare, not when the driver is sitting in his car, waiting for fares to come in.
A UC Berkeley study estimated that if waiting time is factored in, drivers would earn a paltry $5.64 per hour."
if the driver is working paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet which is highly likely the case for such gig based drivers making ends meet good luck getting your medical bills paid.
That's what the ACA is for, and one of the reasons it was implemented....so ANYONE could get health insurance, regardless of employment. And if gig drivers' sole means of employment is the app based job, they probably qualify for a subsidy.
That's what the ACA is for, and one of the reasons it was implemented....so ANYONE could get health insurance, regardless of employment. And if gig drivers' sole means of employment is the app based job, they probably qualify for a subsidy.
It’s not about health insurance for the driver, but responding to the other poster saying that you have the right to sue the driver if neither his personal insurance policy or the apps commercial liability would cover it due to apps insurance saying they do not cover when items/passengers are in the car when personal insurance uses the no commercial driving clause to deny someone coverage, this may happen even if they were not driving for the app at that moment and using as a personal vehicle. Like the incident with the bicyclist in SF. The other poster insists the driver can be sued and take full responsibility either insurance won’t cover but I say while you can win the suit but good luck getting much settlement money for those who may have less than $2000 in his/her bank account and living paycheck to paycheck which is often the case for those who need to engage in gig work to make ends meet. As well as students who do it on the side of study.
Technically Commercial insurance is required ensure coverage without gaps, even then I am not sure, but is impractical for those using personal vehicles and commercial Insurance is super expensive and most gig workers find it too expensive to afford, it would negate any gains working for these apps.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 10-24-2020 at 10:21 AM..
I am not usually for excessive regulations but I notice that there are a lot of discrepancy between overregulation in some areas by today's paternalistic politicians but yet turning a blind eye on other issues.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1475571836083576/ I won't recommend Flixbus.com to my worst enemy, I took it once the trip was rough and there was issue with booking in which the app took my money before booking me a ticket and an argument happened between two passengers as they both had the same seat number due to a mistake in the booking system, they ended up calling the police to settle it. Flixbus runs under this model. Other bus companies are closing down where they operate as Flixbus uses this model to keep its rates much lower than even Boltbus and Megabus. Boltbus pulled out of California despite growing consistently for years shortly and adding stops after Flixbus broken into the market.
Though unfortunately the truth is so few people driving for apps would buy commercial insurance which is necessary to be covered at all times. Full coverage personal insurance may not cover you if they found out you are involved with any app driving if its not a commercial policy. Thats why app's insurance kick in, however there are times when apps commercial insurance don't kick in but personal insurance policies still consider you driving commercially. Though it impractical for most as commercial insurance is extremely expensive many times a full coverage personal insurance and your vehicle would be considered a fleet vehicle from then on not a family vehicle. I am not saying all these delivery drivers are cash stripped but good number of these are students trying to find some income or other people to lost their job trying to make ends meet or working other low ended jobs, these people don't have much assets to begin with, good luck trying to seek compensation, I be curious where the money came out of your settlement if that guy had only thousands in his account living paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately apps don't check if your insurance would actually cover you doing this, any insurance policy clears you.
I heard insurance company allows lenancy for the pandemic though for grocery, medicals, and food deliveries but information is not very clear on it as it only revealed on third party news sources and not the companies themselves. We don't know when if ever they ended such coverage.
I do not have commercial insurance. My insurance company knows that I do the app jobs - food and passengers (passengers will happen when Covid is over, I'm not wearing a mask - let alone while driving), and I have full coverage that protects everyone in the car, everything in the car, and anyone who I might hit, or me against anyone who hits me (PIP, underinsured, etc).
I suggest people actually talk to their insurance company before assuming that they have to have commercial insurance. No, you don't. Same thing back when I lived in Seattle and was an IC delivering airplane parts. My insurance company knew that I was picking up and delivering parts at Boeing (I was not an IC for Boeing). In addition, I would often pick up medical parts, I would also have to go into Canada - they covered it without commercial insurance. Same deal - yes, more expensive, but not astronomical.
My insurance company knew about all of this before the covid thing started, so it had nothing to do with leniency, nor did it have anything to do with leniency when I lived in Seattle many years ago.
Again, the app job companies are not at all responsible for what YOU do as the driver delivering their food or people. If you do something criminal, it's not the app job that gets investigated, it's the driver. Uber will, of course, be cooperative with law enforcement by giving them every last detail of the person, but they are not liable.
I thought I had written this yesterday, but it doesn't seem to appear on the last post I wrote.
What you're asking for is the same as if you worked in an office, and you and your co-workers finally decided that you all wanted food from Wendy's. You decided to be the one to pick it up for everyone. If you got into an accident along the way, that's not on your company, that's on you. What you're asking for is that your company be liable because you were picking up food for people.
You were on your own time.
App job drivers are on their own time. People can't seem to understand the difference between "employed" and "independent contractor". You are in charge of your "business" - you're offering your services to pick up and deliver. The app jobs merely give you the tasks. That's it. They are not responsible for how you drive. You are self employed. The IRS considers you a business - you're the business. Because you're the business, you are responsible for everything. Again, the only thing that the app gigs have to do with you is them asking you: "Hey, we have an order at Chic Fil A to this customer. Do you want to take it?"
You can accept it or reject it. You're not obligated to do the delivery. Same with people. Uber can send you a notification: "Hey, we have this person who needs a ride from here to there. Do you want to do it?" You do not have to take it, because YOU are your own boss, you're self employed, you're an Independent Contractor, you are your own boss, you are the head of your business. You're the CEO, the SEO, the VP, the manager, the supervisor, and the worker. You're all of it. Not one app job company has anything to do with your business beyond asking you if you would like to take this trip.
The whole YES ON 22 campaign is very shady. I am voting a big fat NO. The way 22 is written and the phony "non-profit" status is disgusting, along with the super-majority attempt to make it a forever law. No thanks.
"Gig companies pony up millions more as Prop. 22 approaches $200M mark, as of 10/23/20 (story at sfgate.com)
On Thursday, Uber, Postmates and Instacart anteed up another $9.2 million in their effort to persuade voters to pass Proposition 22, according to late contribution reports filed with California Secretary of State Alex Padilla."
Prop. 22 would prevent gig-economy drivers in California from being classified as employees. Currently, app-based ride-hail and delivery businesses are not required to provide health care, minimum wage, paid sick leave and unemployment insurance, all of which are mandated by state law for employees.
With the new contributions, Yes on Proposition 22 has received at least $195 million, more than 18 times the $10.7 million raised by the labor union-backed No on Prop 22 campaign through Sept. 23.
Also, if the law passes, it can never be changed, due to the language in the bill.
The profit is for the companies, not the employees.
"Prop. 22 does ensure some new benefits for drivers, including “120% of minimum wage,” but that only applies to “engaged time,” when a driver has a fare, not when the driver is sitting in his car, waiting for fares to come in.
A UC Berkeley study estimated that if waiting time is factored in, drivers would earn a paltry $5.64 per hour."
If you force this, the first thing that will happen is:
A lot of those drivers are going to lose all of the income because these app places are not going to hire them all on as employees. So, by voting "no", you are putting a whole lot of people out of work.
They won't get paid anywhere near as much. Oh goody, they have health insurance - but now they don't make jack all and can't afford to use it anyway because the $4000 deductible has to be met, first. So, if they go in for a broken arm, they are going to pay for all of it anyway, and now they only make X amount instead of Y amount that they were able to make because they were not limited on how much they could work - meaning they can work as many hours as they want (Uber does make you stop after 12 consecutive), any day that they want, any time of day that they want...but that won't happen as an employee. So, they'll have less hours to work, get less pay, and have so called "healthcare" - even though the ACA was supposed to be the miracle for "healthcare" woes - except that it's not, because the deductibles are ridiculously high.
The app jobs don't just pay for each trip, they also have incentives. I'm doing one tonight. For simply doing what I would normally do, 3 trips in an hour, I'm getting an extra $12. Worst case scenario, I get cheap people who don't tip, and my total for 1 hour will be $27. Better case scenarios, I could make up to $45 in that one hour.
I can easily afford my own insurance without some company getting involved.
And again...as an IC, you are your own boss. You can get health insurance - that's what ACA Was all about, right?
UC Berkely has no idea how to work these gig jobs. If you're an idiot, yes, you'll make nothing. If you know how to work a couple of them at a time and stay busy the whole day, you can make a good chunk of money, easily.
The people who don't make any money are the lazy people, the people who are new to it and don't know their way around yet, or the ones who sit in parking lots and insist that they will not do any trip/job that is less than $X. And that's why they sit in parking lots for hours on end making $0, while the rest of us are out there making anywhere from $18 to 30 per hour on AVERAGE!
You can bet none of those app jobs are going to pay anyone $18/hour. I thought CA wanted people to be able to make more money, but when people find a way to do that, it seems CA goes back on what they said.
If "YES" equates to allowing independent drivers to retain independent contractor status (or get it, if they are considered employees now), I am all for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
Independent contractors want to be independent contractors for a reason: THEY HAVE CONTRO OVER WHEN THEY WORK. That is a huge thing. THEY WANT IT AND I WANT THEM TO HAVE IT!!!
...The app jobs don't just pay for each trip, they also have incentives. I'm doing one tonight. For simply doing what I would normally do, 3 trips in an hour, I'm getting an extra $12. Worst case scenario, I get cheap people who don't tip, and my total for 1 hour will be $27. Better case scenarios, I could make up to $45 in that one hour....
I just wanted to prove what I said above. Here are the results:
Online for 57 minutes. Did 3 deliveries, got my pay for those plus the $12 incentive - total in an hour: $42.16
No, Berkeley, it's not $5 and change per hour.
That's what those who want to vote "no" are taking away from people. Do you think that any of those app jobs are going to pay employees $40/hr?
If you work smart and not hard, (or not at all because you sat in a parking lot refusing work for less than $x), you can make good money doing this - AS AN IC. As an employee, there's no reason to even bother, because there is no way those companies would pay the drivers this much.
I just wanted to prove what I said above. Here are the results:
Online for 57 minutes. Did 3 deliveries, got my pay for those plus the $12 incentive - total in an hour: $42.16
No, Berkeley, it's not $5 and change per hour.
That's what those who want to vote "no" are taking away from people. Do you think that any of those app jobs are going to pay employees $40/hr?
If you work smart and not hard, (or not at all because you sat in a parking lot refusing work for less than $x), you can make good money doing this - AS AN IC. As an employee, there's no reason to even bother, because there is no way those companies would pay the drivers this much.
I smell something fishy. So, how do you make that much per hour?
Do you cherry pick what rides you will accept, what passengers you accept and to what locations? Do you only drive big tippers?
I don't think taxi drivers can do that.
It will hurt the riding public if you independent contractors can be so choosy, and the riding public is then going to suffer.
I smell something fishy. So, how do you make that much per hour?
Do you cherry pick what rides you will accept, what passengers you accept and to what locations? Do you only drive big tippers?
I don't think taxi drivers can do that.
It will hurt the riding public if you independent contractors can be so choosy, and the riding public is then going to suffer.
No, he doesn't. Prices are a function of demand, and drivers like him (and me) earn 80% of the fare charged.
Rides are assigned by the computer.
A driver can decline a ride, and I have, for example, if the ride is not "going my way" and I have a destination set. However, declining too many rides results in negative evaluations.
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