About prop #22. (Corona: high schools, colleges, closing)
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I smell something fishy. So, how do you make that much per hour?
Do you cherry pick what rides you will accept, what passengers you accept and to what locations? Do you only drive big tippers?
I don't think taxi drivers can do that.
It will hurt the riding public if you independent contractors can be so choosy, and the riding public is then going to suffer.
No, i don't. Again, if you do this smartly, you can make that much money per hour. I screen shot my phone right from the Uber app. It shows you the day, it shows you how long I was on, it shows you what I made. That was the total - you can see everything right there on the screen shot.
I don't cherry pick. The people who cherry pick are the people who are complaining about not making any money. You're not going to get a $20 trip every single time. Sometimes, it's going to be $6. Take it. Because it's not a long one. If you're smart enough, you can get 3-4 per hour, easily.
Also, as I said, take advantage of their promotions or their incentives. People don't do that BECAUSE they cherry pick.
I'll give you another couple of screen shots. First off, it's going to have a white background because it's day time right now. (The app goes black when it's night time - I have no idea why.)
It also goes on longer because I took advantage of 3 promotions going on at the same time:
The first one shows that it was Sunday, the 25th - the following day:
The second one shows how long I was on, how many trips I made, the breakdown, and the earnings, like last time:
The third and fourth ones, I'm going to go even further by showing you the trips that I took, how much each one paid, and the promotions that I earned, all in this time period:
And after scrolling down:
You can see the $12 promotion amount that I earned for taking 3 consecutive trips - NOT rejecting anything, (ie: not cherry picking). ALL I had to do was start the first trip between a certain time frame and certain area. The other 2 trips after that could be any time, anywhere, as long as they were consecutive - meaning I rejected nothing.
Further, you will see two $5 promotions. One was simply for watching some dumb videos filled with sjw bs from Uber. I just played the videos and did other things. For playing all 6 videos, I got $5.
The other $5 was for completing a single trip within a time frame. This $5 promo and the $12 promo were in the exact same time frame.
Uber gave me $17 to do what I normally do, and then another $5 to play their 6 dumb videos preaching about "unwanted advances". I didn't even listen to them, I simply played them, went to the next one, played it, went to the next one...but I didn't pay one bit of attention to them. I even had the volume down so I wouldn't have to hear them.
This is what I mean by "work smart, not hard".
You will also notice some of the really lame pay I got on some of them - because some people don't tip for ....they just don't tip. So, that right there proves that I don't "cherry pick" - even when the pay sucks, I still take it. Why? Because pick up and drop off was less than 2 miles apart. Okay, only got $2 and some change - but it took me about 5 minutes, as well.
This was not as much as the night before, but depending on where you live, you'll have certain days and times that are busier - it varies by market. On Sunday nights, the good money comes later at night - usually after 7pm up to midnight. The time I drove was okay - but again, as I continue to say, if you do this the smart way, you know when to drive, when not to drive.
I don't bother on Tuesdays - I can make money, but it's not going to be as easy, it's going to take me much longer, so I tend to take that day off. Certain times of day are better than others. I'll still drive during those hours, but it's just to pick up a few trips here and there - it's "extra" money, not what I count on.
If you sit in a parking lot and cherry pick, as you say, insisting that you are too good to work for anything less than $whatever amount you think you should only work for, then you're not going to make money. Other drives are out there who are accepting trips.
With Uber - the more you accept and complete, the higher you go in points. The higher you go in points, the better the jobs you're going to get. If you're sitting in a parking lot pouting about how much you're not making, you're going to keep not making any money.
Further, you don't rely on just one app. I have several going at the same time. Whomever gets me a job first, I take it. I still have the other apps going if it's a short job. If it's a longer trip, I'll shut the others one off until I've picked up the order. When I'm done with the delivery, everyone goes back on - I've often "got paid to drive home" many times. That means I might have a trip that took me 10 miles out of my way, and now I have to drive 10 miles back to my area. I put all the apps on. Several times I've got an order, it's a pick up near wherever I am, but the delivery is near where I live. So, I view that as "getting paid to drive back home". It's not, technically, but I view it that way - and because of it, I don't mind taking the longer jobs that many drivers pass up.
They aren't playing it smart. They're sitting in a parking lot expecting to make $100 in 2 hours with trips that are less than 1 mile away.
It doesn't work like that.
To add: An example of what I mean about "working smart not hard".
When the lock downs first started, a lot of orders for groceries went out. There were so many that we couldn't even do them all. Many of them meant that we didn't actually do the shopping, we just picked up from the grocery store who had done the shopping, place the bags in our cars, and we would drive them to the customer and drop them off. In the beginning, I made a LOT of money just from the tips alone.
Once people started running out of money, and the tips got less, I focused more on one particular type of delivery through the same app (not Uber, a different one). It was only picking up boxes of wine or sometimes beer from a wine store. I just carted it out to my car, loaded my car, and drove the wine to the customer. Usually the customer was a lot closer than the grocery ones. And those customers tipped huge.
I started to plan my day around any wine store pick ups. I would nab them up as fast as I could - meaning I monitored that app closely, all day long, especially at night when orders for the next day were coming in. Every wine store order that I saw in my area, I grabbed it. I would then plan my restaurant orders around those wine orders.
If I had a wine order at 2pm, for example, I'd look up the customer's address, see how long it would take me to get there, what area they lived in, and then would plan on doing deliveries in my area for the lunch hours, do their wine order, and then do afternoon and dinner hours in their area. And, as I said, when I'm ready to go home, I open all apps up again, and often times I am given a job that may be a pick up in the area I'm in, but the actual delivery address is in the area where I live.
BUT, I can't do any of that if I'm an "employee", nor can anyone else who does the same exact thing that I do. I'm not the only one who has multiple apps going at the same time. I'm not the only one who is out there taking jobs all the time, keeping busy all day long, or for whatever hours we choose to work. I'm not some genius that is the only one that has figured this out - a lot of drivers have multiple apps going and work smart, not hard.
But, you make them employees - you're taking away the money that they can make - and especially a state like CA, they need every dime they can get.
Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 10-29-2020 at 02:03 PM..
Yes on 22 will help get us self-driving taxis sooner since, they'll be MUCH cheaper than human-driven cars. The market needs this kick in the pants to quit idling along. I want self-driving cars to be the norm before my kids turn 16!
We often hear how big, bad, evil corporations are behind some Props. Keep in mind that corporations provides jobs and tax money for the government and public pensions to collect. Without them, let's see how long the government can last.
We often hear how big, bad, evil corporations are behind some Props. Keep in mind that corporations provides jobs and tax money for the government and public pensions to collect. Without them, let's see how long the government can last.
... doesn't seem like it'll mean much in this case. If Uber, Lyft, and Doordash follow on their threat to leave CA, that opens the door for competitors to come in.
Don't the ride share programs set the rates they're allowed to charge? That's something independent contractors would be able to do, but can't b/c that's up to Uber, Lyft, etc.
So, they aren't as independent as we are led to believe.
These are not "independent drivers".
They rely on these companies for customers.
If they were truly independent, they would each own their own driver service, and not rely on uber, or anyone else.
I am voting NO on this proposition.
It is just a scam so the businesses don't have to pay a minimum wage, workman's comp etc.
A very confusing proposition. The whole concept of what an Independent Contractor is must have changed in the past decade.
Here's a confusing read about an Uber driver's death (as a result of Covid-19).
If Proposition 22 passes, the measure would cement gig workers’ status as independent contractors. It would compel companies to give them some additional benefits that mimic those offered to employees under California labor law but are weaker. The measure lays out plans for a private insurance policy to cover on-the-job injuries that in some ways replicates the state’s workers’ compensation system. However, experts say there are clear gaps, and the program will not offer protection that’s as comprehensive as workers’ compensation.
Uber declined to answer questions about whether the Zayyid family or others in similar situations would be qualified for death benefits under Proposition 22.
Uber spokesman Davis White said in an email that the company provides COVID-related financial assistance and has paid out more than $10 million to over 16,750 drivers and delivery workers since March.
Driverless taxis won't be in our lifetime. So vote yes.
If AB5 stays in effect I'd predict Driverless taxis in SF within 5 or 6 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer
The whole YES ON 22 campaign is very shady. ..... With the new contributions, Yes on Proposition 22 has received at least $195 million, more than 18 times the $10.7 million raised by the labor union-backed No on Prop 22 campaign through Sept. 23.
Ummm.... and why do you think the labor unions are backing no? The goodness of their hearts? They want to unionize the drivers and make the app based model even less viable. The biggest losers are the consumer and driver who wanted a part time job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer
Also, if the law passes, it can never be changed, due to the language in the bill.
No law is unchangeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer
A UC Berkeley study estimated that if waiting time is factored in, drivers would earn a paltry $5.64 per hour."
Even if it were true (which it isn't), so what? The decision to be an app driver or not is strictly voluntary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere
I think this one will not pass, only taxi drivers would be voting for this prop.
Taxi drivers, who have app based drivers are voting against it.
So, they aren't as independent as we are led to believe.
These are not "independent drivers".
They rely on these companies for customers.
If they were truly independent, they would each own their own driver service, and not rely on uber, or anyone else.
I am voting NO on this proposition.
It is just a scam so the businesses don't have to pay a minimum wage, workman's comp etc.
Independent Contractor has not changed in the last decade. I used to be an IC in Seattle. I drove for an affiliate of UPS, but drove my own car, not the brown truck. I was an IC. I delivered a lot of airplane parts from Boeing, and I also delivered a lot of medical supplies, and some bank stuff.
The company relied on customers. The company set the rates. I was not an employee. I could choose whether or not to take the job. I drove up to Canada a lot, and I took the long drives to Oregon, a lot, because the other drivers wanted to sit in the non stop Seattle rush hour that apparently lasts all day long. I preferred taking my dog with me, and driving the long drives - because it's a lot more fun once you get out of the cities.
Anyway, I could make $300 a day. And I did. As an example, one job I took was from the airport (picking up a part) to 10 miles east of Hermiston, OR. (There's a Wal Mart distribution center out there in the middle of nowhere.) I got paid the miles to drive down there. Once it was delivered, I was on my own time. So, the drive back was not paid, but not a big deal because I made $150 to drive from Seattle to Hermiston, OR. A 5 hour trip.
I got back home, walked in my door, and before I even put anything down, my pager went off (we're talking the 90s here), from the company. They had another job. They always called me first for the long jobs because they knew that I would take them. Guess what? Another job all the way down to Hermiston, OR, but this time, 10 miles to the west. I turned right around, got back in my car, picked up the part in Seattle, and drove down to the drop off. I made $300. On the way back, I stopped at a rest stop, and my dog and I got a few hours of sleep.
Without a Masters or a Doctorate, what job is going to pay you $300 in 90s dollars for a single day? If you do the calculation, that is $611 by today's standards. (I used this: https://www.dollartimes.com/inflatio...=300&year=1990) Give or take a few bucks.
So, what job would pay me the equivalent of $60/hour TODAY for 10 hours of work when I was still working through school? That's the type of job that CA want to vote "No" on? What do you want students to do, single moms, stay at home moms, retirees, or just people who don't like "normal" office jobs? Work retail?
Do we want people to be able to make a comfortable living or not? Is the goal of CA to leave a massive amount of people unemployed? Because that's what is going to happen if people vote against this. Those companies are not going to hire all of those people as employees. Uber, Lyft, and DD have all threatened to leave CA. So ALL of those people will have a massive loss of income.
These gig jobs right now can net you $200 or more a day. A. Day. What makes them IC are the following:
You can choose to accept or reject. You are not obligated to take the jobs.
You can work when you want (around your schedule).
You can work as many hours as you want (except Uber limits you to 12 driving hours at a time.)
You can work whatever days you want.
You can wake up one day and decide you feel like working right then and there, and start working...even if you thought you were going to take the day off. (Which I do a LOT.)
It's working, but you're not confined to certain hours, certain routes, certain days.
That's what makes it IC.
I also did IC for the Federal Government when I lived in Maine. Guess what? The pay rate was also determined by the Fed Gov, and I could choose whether or not I wanted to take it. I was not obligated to take it. I drove all over Maine. If I took the job, the only obligation I had was to be at a certain place at a certain time. That's it. I was not obligated to be there whether I wanted to or not.
In addition, to the other poster who claimed that by allowing people to remain ICs, it would mean longer times waiting for your food or rides - the opposite is what would happen. The faster we work, the more money we make - because we can choose that. As an employee, we would be forced to take the job, and guess what? If I'm getting an hourly wage, what's the rush? I would take my sweet arse time getting the jobs done, so I could put less miles on my car, because it wouldn't matter how many jobs I did that day, I'm getting paid the same.
So, I can do 18 jobs today as an IC, or if I were to be employed doing the same thing, I'd do half of that. What difference would it make to me if I got a flat rate no matter what I did? Expect it to take longer.
CA is the only state that I've lived in that seems to do everything in their power to make it difficult for businesses to operate there. Many jobs that I could have in other states, (where you can work anywhere you want, you don't go to an office), are not available in CA because how ridiculously CA makes it for people to work. It's like they don't want people to work, they want them to rely on government.
Trying to make these companies "employee" only has nothing to do with them caring about the drivers. I would guarantee that they would try to unionize these companies, and when that happens, everyone loses...except the politicians. Don't for a second thing any of this is because the politicians care about the drivers - they don't.
Keep in mind, while you're voting "No", that you're also affecting more than just app drivers. You're affecting writers in Hollywood, you're affecting a lot of freelancers, you're affecting a lot of other ICs in many different types of work - from construction to truck drivers, you're affecting a LOT of people with that "No" vote.
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