They Said the Recall Was Going To Be A Circus... (Sacramento: crime, coop)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by joosoon

What you *should* be asking is why Newsom was allowed to put Alex Padilla into Kamala Harris' senate seat. This time the short answer is "he wasn't but did it anyway" and now we have a joke of an election to decide who will occupy that seat for a tiny one month period at the end of 2022. Of course, this stuff just cruises under the radar of the public and everyone pretends the recall is about the stupid French Laundry dinner rather than serious corruption.

What he did was legal. Kevin Kiley is just lawsuit happy, that's one of the reasons he won't be Governor if the recall succeeds, he's too much like that little worm Devin Nunes and people tend to get tired of it.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

We just went through this intellectual exercise a week or so ago. “Wrong” or not, nothing Newsom is doing is remarkable or unique to politics. Nothing. Nature of the beast. And none of it equates to ‘dictatorship’ at all, let alone Putin level dictatorship.

Put the dictatorship thing aside (who cares, really).


What Newsom and the willing accomplice of the state legislature have done, IS in fact unique. You're right that we went through the same motions before, but I asked you to point out another situation where a governor and his state legislature are rewriting election code while that train is in motion, for the express purpose of saving one guy's job (hint: it's unprecedented). In this case, what's worse is the target of the recall who is compelling lawmakers to give him all these competitive advantages, is also signing the bills into law. They are literally codifying a one-off recall strategy, writing laws meant to benefit one person out of a state of 40M residents for one particular election. There's plenty of wrong in that and it's beyond normal everyday scumbag politics.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

What he did was legal. Kevin Kiley is just lawsuit happy, that's one of the reasons he won't be Governor if the recall succeeds, he's too much like that little worm Devin Nunes and people tend to get tired of it.

If you read the legislative counsel's response, you'll understand it isn't that black and white and that a lot of the opinion is untested legal theory. The point remains that barring the special election, Newsom couldn't just appoint Padilla as the new reigning champ indefinitely, thus the actions of the state legislature to the rescue (are you sensing a theme here? you should be).


Regardless of what you think of Kiley (and I agree he shouldn't have thrown his hat in the ring for this recall), he and Gallagher are the only ones in the state legislature attempting to keep Newsom and his co-conspirators in check. It's actually too bad and says more about Newsom than Kiley that these things always have to boil down to litigation. But then, you can't compel crooked politicians like Newsom to do the right thing minus getting the judicial involved, so.... ::shrug::


btw - Newsom is no slouch when it comes to being lawsuit happy. You just have to be a bit more honest about what's going on to notice it.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Put the dictatorship thing aside (who cares, really).


What Newsom and the willing accomplice of the state legislature have done, IS in fact unique. You're right that we went through the same motions before, but I asked you to point out another situation where a governor and his state legislature are rewriting election code while that train is in motion, for the express purpose of saving one guy's job (hint: it's unprecedented). In this case, what's worse is the target of the recall who is compelling lawmakers to give him all these competitive advantages, is also signing the bills into law. They are literally codifying a one-off recall strategy, writing laws meant to benefit one person out of a state of 40M residents for one particular election. There's plenty of wrong in that and it's beyond normal everyday scumbag politics.

You’re being quite specious in this. It’s kinda humorous. When I point out there is “nothing unique” about ‘this’ … by ‘this’ - I mean political chicanery. In general. No, I’m not going to spend time on a search through the internet to find exactly matching scenarios and argue the details.

You agreed previously that sleazy chicanery and gauzy gray legalities are endemic to the amorphous entity known as politics. Gerrymandering is a good parallel to cite when discussing political hijinks. Parties and players find ways to play with boundaries, literal … and figurative. I agree with the sentiment: “it’s not okay.” Of course it’s sleazy and has the effect of cheating. But if it’s legal: it’s not cheating. But yeah, it can still be sleazy

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by joosoon

If you read the legislative counsel's response, you'll understand it isn't that black and white and that a lot of the opinion is untested legal theory. The point remains that barring the special election, Newsom couldn't just appoint Padilla as the new reigning champ indefinitely, thus the actions of the state legislature to the rescue (are you sensing a theme here? you should be).


Regardless of what you think of Kiley (and I agree he shouldn't have thrown his hat in the ring for this recall), he and Gallagher are the only ones in the state legislature attempting to keep Newsom and his co-conspirators in check. It's actually too bad and says more about Newsom than Kiley that these things always have to boil down to litigation. But then, you can't compel crooked politicians like Newsom to do the right thing minus getting the judicial involved, so.... ::shrug::


btw - Newsom is no slouch when it comes to being lawsuit happy. You just have to be a bit more honest about what's going on to notice it.

I read it, Newsom can appoint a replacement but at some point he has to have an election, no law was broken and I would presume that a democratic majority legislature would support a Democratic governor, that's kind of how it works in all states, right?

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You’re being quite specious in this. It’s kinda humorous. When I point out there is “nothing unique” about ‘this’ … by ‘this’ - I mean political chicanery. In general. No, I’m not going to spend time on a search through the internet to find exactly matching scenarios and argue the details.

You agreed previously that sleazy chicanery and gauzy gray legalities are endemic to the amorphous entity known as politics. Gerrymandering is a good parallel to cite when discussing political hijinks. Parties and players find ways to play with boundaries, literal … and figurative. I agree with the sentiment: “it’s not okay.” Of course it’s sleazy and has the effect of cheating. But if it’s legal: it’s not cheating. But yeah, it can still be sleazy

Well, unfortunately, I think the vast majority of people are unaware of the level of corruption that's circulated just around the recall process/changing the rulees and all that chicanery has flown beneath their radar. I get being desensitized to it but you tend to support the governor more than I do anyway so that's the difference in our opinions.


But this isn't normal sleaziness. This is textbook banana republic stuff.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I read it, Newsom can appoint a replacement but at some point he has to have an election, no law was broken and I would presume that a democratic majority legislature would support a Democratic governor, that's kind of how it works in all states, right?

But the state legislature rewrote the process to do all this. It's been the theme for two years now. That's what AB1495 was about. Again, this should raise eyebrows but there's a committed throng of Newsom supporters who wouldn't bat an eye at him eating a live kitten on TV.


If this was a Republican dominated state, and the Republicans were pulling all these stunts, I'd be calling them out just the same here and I'm sure you'd be less inclined to shrug it off too. Just because they can get away with this stuff doesn't mean they should. The cornerstone of democracy is free elections but look how hard state leadership tries to game the system, and go the appointment route (or derail the legitimate recall election). Their actions are very telling.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by joosoon

But the state legislature rewrote the process to do all this. It's been the theme for two years now. That's what AB1495 was about. Again, this should raise eyebrows but there's a committed throng of Newsom supporters who wouldn't bat an eye at him eating a live kitten on TV.

If this was a Republican dominated state, and the Republicans were pulling all these stunts, I'd be calling them out just the same here and I'm sure you'd be less inclined to shrug it off too. Just because they can get away with this stuff doesn't mean they should. The cornerstone of democracy is free elections but look how hard state leadership tries to game the system, and go the appointment route (or derail the legitimate recall election). Their actions are very telling.

If your goal here is to get people riled up over this so that they will vote to recall Newsom, I think you're wasting your time. We lived through 4 years of Trump where people who had never tried a case were given lifetime appointments as federal judges, a sycophant was appointed to run the post office with marching orders to slow the mail down, and an AG who lied and withheld information in order to protect Trump, and where the President engaged in so much gaslighting people started to confuse it with reality.

I think most of us are pretty much numb right now and not prepared to march in the streets because Newsom appointed a replacement for Harris.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Well, unfortunately, I think the vast majority of people are unaware of the level of corruption that's circulated just around the recall process/changing the rulees and all that chicanery has flown beneath their radar. I get being desensitized to it but you tend to support the governor more than I do anyway so that's the difference in our opinions.
But this isn't normal sleaziness. This is textbook banana republic stuff.

"banana republic stuff"? that is way over the top

[visual_snacks]

Apparently this is business as usual, nothing to see here. But Trump farts in Russia's direction and he's dog whistling to white supremacists sleeper cells. The level of complacency with out in the open corruption is sad.