Awww - poor almond producers feeling the pinch: “ “It’s all about money,” (Castro Valley: live, cost of)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by joosoon

On these forums? Man, it's constantly framed that way. This thread is no exception.

You're even doing it right now you just don't realize it. ↓↓↓


You see it as absurdity. I see it as business as normal and precisely what to expect given the way our economy works.

Surely you didn't miss the OP's various references to "the way our economy works" as being part of the problem, though...


....if I may interject...

[joosoon]

No, of course I saw it (and don't call me Shirley) but even the quote from the article in the title is totally out of context. The guy was talking about how the shipping industry abandoned the growers. He wasn't making some supervillian-esque declaration of how he loves money, money, money!


The whole thread is couched in this idea that growers are evil and they're getting their due and that nobody should sympathize with this industry because they use some inconsequential amount of the water supply for ag. That's just weird and vindictive.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by joosoon

No, of course I saw it (and don't call me Shirley)

You're hilarious! I'm getting quite a few chuckles watching you and the Mutt go at it. Hold on, while I make some more popcorn.

[malcorub16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond_milk

Admittedly, I know very little about big agriculture. Speaking of almond milk specifically, according to this article its production uses less land compared to dairy milk, produces less CO2 emissions and it uses less water than cow's milk.

I will say, I don't drink almond milk but my fridge is always stocked with it as that is what my wife and kids prefer, rarely does my fridge have dairy milk unless we plan to cook with it (mash potatoes, pasta, etc). I don't eat cereal a whole lot, but when I do I prefer it with dairy milk. My wife and kids also seem to really like almond "peanut butter".

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by joosoon

On these forums? Man, it's constantly framed that way. This thread is no exception.

You're even doing it right now you just don't realize it. ↓↓↓





You see it as absurdity. I see it as business as normal and precisely what to expect given the way our economy works.


Agriculture is a water heavy industry (duh). The same thing happened with citrus. There's a reason why what used to be nothing but groves is now all housing where I'm at. Once it became too expensive to grow citrus fruits, particularly because of the water costs and cheap imports, farming simply went away... and the properties were subdivided and housing went in on top of what was once a thriving industry. But nobody with any business sense is going to engage in an endeavor that loses money. You see a moral issue where in reality, it's just a big actuary table. Farming isn't going to suddenly shift to native species plants with no marketability. Farming, like any other business, is going to seek the best bang for its investment buck. And before you claim that's "absurdity", you should look a little deeper into the environmental movement behind all this. You think I'm kidding about being reduced to eating low-grade gruel.

Beyond obtuse? I’ve mostly considered you a better reader / analyst than this. Really.

No, neither this thread, nor others I’ve read lately, blame the drought or water crisis on almonds. It is pointed out that almonds are a poster child for the inequitable balance of resource assignment between the industry and the public. There are many other crops that can be cited as well, but almonds make one of the best summary targets because of the degree of exporting luxury while residents conserve without compensatory benefit.

And I certainly never suggested any of the shifts or expectations you are framing me with. I have, in fact, specifically acknowledged this is absolutely within bounds of our economic system … and, as Ruth ‘interjected’, I ridicule the entire culture and economics we subscribe to.

That said, I haven’t suggested any change nor that we should change. I am *pointing out the absurdity* that this *business as normal* is how we, homo sapiens, have come to define our existence.

I know perfectly well as much as you what farming is … what a business it is … my father was a farmer … his father before him (who lost three farms over his lifetime for lack of business skills). I also know that homo sapiens are social creatures by natural design, not *business machines* as we’ve become. We are hunter-gatherer animals designed to live and function cooperatively in small troops. Large societies have been facilitated by - wait for it - the discovery / advent of agriculture only in the most recent 10,000 years out of near ½ million years of our species’ existence.

All said though, all I’m doing is lampooning the whole absurd mess we’ve got ourselves into with our narcissistic self-defining as beings superior to our natural design.

Hilarious that a handful of almond-growers, and other agriculturists, get to reap huge benefits marketing to foreign luxury consumers by using an enormously outsized share of a public resource while the public at large has to flush once a day and take 2 minute showers.

Go argue with someone who cares. I certainly don’t. I’m eating popcorn watching our whole species pretend we’re something better than baboons that can read and talk a bit.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Surely you didn't miss the OP's various references to "the way our economy works" as being part of the problem, though...


....if I may interject...

Um, yup

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by joosoon

No, of course I saw it (and don't call me Shirley) but even the quote from the article in the title is totally out of context. The guy was talking about how the shipping industry abandoned the growers. He wasn't making some supervillian-esque declaration of how he loves money, money, money!


The whole thread is couched in this idea that growers are evil and they're getting their due and that nobody should sympathize with this industry because they use some inconsequential amount of the water supply for ag. That's just weird and vindictive.

Yes, the thread was intended to ridicule the *poor almond farmer* who feels pinched by the shipping industry. For a guy who’s making bank, getting over as he is, to cry the blues had me near in stitches. Welcome to your turn in the barrel, pal.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Um, yup

Just don't call him Shirley.

[Racer46]

Originally Posted by joosoon

O

Agriculture is a water heavy industry (duh). The same thing happened with citrus. There's a reason why what used to be nothing but groves is now all housing where I'm at. Once it became too expensive to grow citrus fruits, particularly because of the water costs and cheap imports, farming simply went away... and the properties were subdivided and housing went in on top of what was once a thriving industry. But nobody with any business sense is going to engage in an endeavor that loses money. You see a moral issue where in reality, it's just a big actuary table. Farming isn't going to suddenly shift to native species plants with no marketability. Farming, like any other business, is going to seek the best bang for its investment buck. And before you claim that's "absurdity", you should look a little deeper into the environmental movement behind all this. You think I'm kidding about being reduced to eating low-grade gruel.

Well look at all the milk farms that used to be in Southern CA and are now gone and ... replaced by homes.

They made more money selling the land and moving to the central valley. Oops, farm land is being bought and turned into developments for more homes now in the valley. Maybe if enough homes were built where farmland used to be, the water use by farms would drop a LOT.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Just don't call him Shirley.

Surely I would never