If you could start over, say you were a bright eyed out of stater looking live the California dream…

[saibot]

Originally Posted by cleosmom

Why yes, it does. I also said the best decision for us. Can I help it that the place we were both born and raised was becoming a claustrophobic concrete jungle?

Of course not, but at the same time by far the majority of California is not a "claustrophobic concrete jungle."

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by saibot

Of course not, but at the same time by far the majority of California is not a "claustrophobic concrete jungle."

While that may true, the majority of CA's population lives in or very near the concrete jungle. That's where the jobs are and it wasn't always that way. Many natives old enough to remember what CA was like before the population explosion understand the difference. Do you remember when Orange County actually had orange groves vs. an endless sea of homes? How about San Diego all the way to LA with the 405 connecting them? There was a time when it was SD and OC weren't the complete zoo that they are now. There's a real and significant difference between 20 million and 40 million residents concentrated in the major metros and endless sprawl. That's also why CA has some of the worst traffic in the world.

If folks spread out more, it would be much better. But some jobs allow more that if they're reliant on huge populations for their customers.

Derek

[cleosmom]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

While that may true, the majority of CA's population lives in or very near the concrete jungle. That's where the jobs are and it wasn't always that way. Many natives old enough to remember what CA was like before the population explosion understand the difference. Do you remember when Orange County actually had orange groves vs. an endless sea of homes? How about San Diego all the way to LA with the 405 connecting them? There was a time when it was SD and OC weren't the complete zoo that they are now. There's a real and significant difference between 20 million and 40 million residents concentrated in the major metros and endless sprawl. That's also why CA has some of the worst traffic in the world.

If folks spread out more, it would be much better. But some jobs allow more that if they're reliant on huge populations for their customers.

Derek

Quite true! Yes, orange groves in Orange County, fig trees in Fresno County. Going to the county dump was a drive out to the sticks, now there are houses surrounding the perimeter, of which I’m sure they paid a gold coin to live there in comparison to my home in Idaho.

[saibot]

Most of the actual orange groves in OC were a little before my time, but our house in La Habra had three ancient orange trees from when it had been a grove. And I remember the citrus groves down in south county, on the inland side of the 5. We would drive down Irvine Blvd. and it smelled wonderful. I also remember the fields with eucalyptus windbreaks along the 5, driving down to Laguna Canyon Road.

It's true, that was nice and I miss it. But I still wouldn't exactly call south OC a concrete jungle. I suppose I am spoiled because I live very close to the foothills / canyons.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

While that may true, the majority of CA's population lives in or very near the concrete jungle. That's where the jobs are and it wasn't always that way. Many natives old enough to remember what CA was like before the population explosion understand the difference. Do you remember when Orange County actually had orange groves vs. an endless sea of homes? How about San Diego all the way to LA with the 405 connecting them? There was a time when it was SD and OC weren't the complete zoo that they are now. There's a real and significant difference between 20 million and 40 million residents concentrated in the major metros and endless sprawl. That's also why CA has some of the worst traffic in the world.

If folks spread out more, it would be much better. But some jobs allow more that if they're reliant on huge populations for their customers.

Derek

100 years from now except for the military bases probably the entire coast will look exactly the same. High rises, concrete, asphalt and horrible traffic.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

While that may true, the majority of CA's population lives in or very near the concrete jungle.

I have to say that I don't agree with this, and I've lived in southern California since I was a little kid.

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Do you remember when Orange County actually had orange groves vs. an endless sea of homes?

Well, not that far back!

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

There's a real and significant difference between 20 million and 40 million residents concentrated in the major metros and endless sprawl.

Yes, I remember when we could drive from the San Gabriel Valley to the beach in Santa Monica in a half hour.

[artillery77]

Hey OP. I'm not a native. The natives will never let you forget that in certain areas, btw. Tolerance and all that.

California was very good to me financially and I got a lot of great experiences from it that I think would be difficult to get anywhere else. I'm in Norcal SV, and there are so many companies that start up here. I've gotten to work with drone makers, solar companies, biotechs, software companies etc. It is really cool. I've also gotten to work with some really smart people and learned a lot about how the capital markets work here. The excess that comes when working with companies that are close to the innovation side as opposed to the commodity side of things is stark and impressive.....and dangerous when you realize being right vs being favored is a losing hand often here.

Now, to me...I must admit, I'm not hella impressed with the ammenities of NorCal, but it does have variety and proximity. And if you turn everything that is "Amazing" down 5 notches to...."this is something cool and worth doing"....you'll adjust your frequency correctly. I prefer the ammenities of SoCal to Norcal considerably. People are also very easy to chill with, but those tight bonds are more rare. One regret I had was the integrity of community that I miss from other areas.

Whatever you decide, realize it is not a chill place to live. It is competitive, with scarce resources, and this doesn't tend to bring out the best in people. However, it is also a great place to learn a great deal and work and live with great individuals. Whether that is a tradeoff you are interested in is up to the individual.

[AnythingOutdoors]

My wife and I were born and raised in CA, lived there 40+ years before moving out of state a couple years ago.

Would we start in CA again? That's a tough question to answer since a lot has changed over the years. We bought our house before prices went completely nuts. I worked in tech pre remote-work when it absolutely made sense to live where I could access jobs paying a hefty premium compared to everywhere else. And we had a deep network of friends and family there -- though over the years this diminished as folks were priced out.

So would I do it again in today's reality? Probably not. If I can get paid about the same at a much lower cost of living with a better quality of life (yes QoL is subjective) why wouldn't I take that deal. Sure, the climate in coastal CA is mild, but IMO the climate thing is largely overrated. I actually prefer 4 seasons and the variety this brings. Also, the whole "CA is geologically diverse" is also kinda... arbitrary. Overlay CA on other parts of the US and you'll find plenty of diversity. Driving the length of CA is, what, 10-12 hrs? One can hit a lot of diversity driving for 10 hrs in any direction in the western US. E.g. from Boise to the OR coast is about 8 hrs, around 6 hrs to Yellowstone, about 9 hrs to the National Parks in UT, and around 9 hrs to Yosemite. While it's not exactly the same as CA, you still have mountains, rivers, lakes, deserts, plains, agriculture, buttes, grasslands, high desert, ocean, lush forests, and canyon lands within a one day drive. Crossing state lines is irrelevant.

I don't have any animosity towards CA, in fact it was quite good to us and we were able to retire comfortably in our late 30s. But at this point I wouldn't advise anyone to chase the CA dream unless you're reasonably certain you can command a large enough income premium to make it worth while (again, keeping in mind remote-work options). Even then, money isn't everything, and the hectic rat-race of trying to compete for housing and dealing with long commutes is soul crushing. If you don't already have deep roots there (friends and family) I just don't think it makes sense.