The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (live in, legal)

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by stan4

I can't believe all this is hoopla b/c of a word. On either side of the argument.

So are you seriously telling me that people who are currently against gay 'marriage' would be happy to vote for equal civil rights if gay people just called it something else? Like kerpakapookie or something? And allow the same inheritance rights, parental rights, property rights, etc?

Are you saying religious people are just trying to protect a word? And otherwise, they would be ok to let gays get kerpakapookied, adopt/raise children, etc?

I know I said I was done, but I just couldn't resist responding to this intelligent, if confused, response!

No, not all would be "okay" with it...but enough of us rational people would join in to make up enough of a majority to make it happen. However, when you try to take our beliefs about marriage and twist it to fit your own ideals about it then we move on over to the other side and make up the majority to protect it. The point is, if you worked towards finding a reasonable compromise then the response would be far more favorable. At least from people like me. The courts ruled that religion had no right to call marriage their own...when, in fact, religion has owned the rights to marriage for centuries. I'm sorry if many of you disagree, but it is fact. You can't just strip someone's age old right away just because you don't believe as they do. That is, by definition, bigotry. I do not advocate denying gay couples the same rights under state law as married couples, but it needs to be called Civil Unions or "kerpakapookied" as you put it... That would be a situation that at least 10-15% of us YES ON PROP 8 voters would be open to voting in favor of. The problem I have found is that the gay lobby doesn't want equal rights...they want to punish the religious folks for the punishment they have endured in years past. That is not a lobby seeking equality, that is a lobby seeking retribution.

[sav858]

I haven't through this thread but I am just going to throw this out here.

Republican San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders last year gave a tearful speech to the city for his support of same sex marriage and his lesbian daughters right to marry. And Dick Cheney reversed his support for a constitutional amendment too b/c of his daughter.

Newsblog | Mayor and daughter oppose Prop. 8 in magazine

What I always think people should do to understand an issue or side of an argument is to put yourself in someone else's shoes then evaluate your position.

For all of the Prop 8 supporters, if you child was gay would you be fine with taking their right to marry away?

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

we still have a ways to go before society can accept the reality of modern California.

I believe our definitions of reality differ.

In my experience, a political reality is made of the collective opinion of a majority of citizens. It appears we have a ways to go before society can change the reality of modern California.

[dearvictoria]

Originally Posted by stan4

I can't believe all this is hoopla b/c of a word. On either side of the argument.

So are you seriously telling me that people who are currently against gay 'marriage' would be happy to vote for equal civil rights if gay people just called it something else? Like kerpakapookie or something? And allow the same inheritance rights, parental rights, property rights, etc?

Are you saying religious people are just trying to protect a word? And otherwise, they would be ok to let gays get kerpakapookied, adopt/raise children, etc?

Many would probably fight against adoption.

You would be surprised by how important what you say and think is. It isn't exactly the word marriage, its the meaning behind it. Marriage should always be indicated as just being between a man and a woman. What would be the problem with it being just a more in-depth form of a partnership?

[sonarrat]

Originally Posted by Zapparulez

I believe our definitions of reality differ.

In my experience, a political reality is made of the collective opinion of a majority of citizens. It appears we have a ways to go before society can change the reality of modern California.

I'm not talking about you. Your arguments were confused, but it does seem that you support a shadow marriage that confers all the rights of real marriage. Fine by me. And you won't tell me to my face that God hates **** or that people like me will destroy society. You're not a real bigot. Those are the folks I'm talking about.

[Roaddog]

Originally Posted by sav858

I haven't through this thread but I am just going to throw this out here.
For all of the Prop 8 supporters, if you child was gay would you be fine with taking their right to marry away?

just because your child chooses a differant lifestyle doesn't mean you have to go along with it, If my Son was a drug addict I wouldn't buy him drugs.
If you want people to walk in your shoes take the time to walk in theirs.

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

I'm not talking about you. Your arguments were confused, but it does seem that you support a shadow marriage that confers all the rights of real marriage. Fine by me. And you won't tell me to my face that God hates **** or that people like me will destroy society. You're not a real bigot. Those are the folks I'm talking about.

We are at peace then. I apologize for making any spiteful remarks towards you in the past few days.

[SandyCo]

Being gay is not a choice. It just is. It's like being born with blue eyes or green eyes. Did you choose to be heterosexual? Well, neither did I. Do you really equate being gay with being a drug addict?!

My daughter says she's bisexual, which means she gets hit from both sides with objections and criticism. Her sexuality can only be defined by her. I don't have the right to do that, and neither does anyone else. No matter who she chooses to marry, I'll be there to support her. That's what Prop. 8 would take away from people like her.

Originally Posted by Roaddog

just because your child chooses a differant lifestyle doesn't mean you have to go along with it, If my Son was a drug addict I wouldn't buy him drugs.
If you want people to walk in your shoes take the time to walk in theirs.

[sonarrat]

Originally Posted by Zapparulez

We are at peace then. I apologize for making any spiteful remarks towards you in the past few days.

Same to you. Whatever happens, the seeds are sown for what we both ultimately want, so hopefully it will just come out in the wash. Pity this proposition had to come along and stir up so much discontentment though.

[bradly]