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Old 05-30-2010, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Oregon
1,458 posts, read 5,252,552 times
Reputation: 1410

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
Prop 13 helped distribute the tax load to everyone. Renters do not pay property tax, when more was needed it was added to sales tax.
We now have a sales tax of nearly 10%, but my property tax is only $1300 a year.
In business, customers (renters in this case) pay their share through their payments.

Its just like how free estimates are not free. When I do estimates, the time is included in the project price. So the customers pay for the estimate time and work time.

When it comes to rent, renters pay for the the expenses, one of which can be taxes if the property owner chooses to include that cost in the rent total.

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Old 05-30-2010, 09:20 AM
 
783 posts, read 705,010 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastRefugee2 View Post
A very bright and informed man's opinion.

Mervin Filed Questions California

I read the above with great interest. I recently saw a television program on PBS that dealt with the education system in CA., and it was an eye opener on how Prop. 13 helpd CA. get to where it is today.

The Merrow Report- First to Worst (Special Challenge of Prop 13) (http://www.pbs.org/merrow/tv/ftw/prop13.html - broken link)
Sales taxes should be abolished and and taxation should shift away from sales taxation to proporty taxation instead sales taxes ara highly regressive and decreases revenue collection rather than increasing it.
An abolishment or lowering of sales taxes to under a percentage point
would greatly strenghthen Californias finances and reduce the budget defecit.
Sales taxes are highly anti entrprenerual and harmful for business and investment Califronias sky high sales taxes are the symptom of Propostion 13 and the abnormal and futile atempt to collect revenues it has created.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:39 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 35,879,215 times
Reputation: 7510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
Sales taxes should be abolished and and taxation should shift away from sales taxation to proporty taxation instead sales taxes ara highly regressive and decreases revenue collection rather than increasing it.
An abolishment or lowering of sales taxes to under a percentage point
would greatly strenghthen Californias finances and reduce the budget defecit.
Sales taxes are highly anti entrprenerual and harmful for business and investment Califronias sky high sales taxes are the symptom of Propostion 13 and the abnormal and futile atempt to collect revenues it has created.
Property taxes are the worst kind of tax because holding an asset does not mean there's income to pay the taxes with. Property taxes also tax unrealized income. At least with income tax, there's income and cash flow with which to pay the tax. With sales tax, you can decide whether or not to buy something based on the total price including tax.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:15 AM
 
783 posts, read 705,010 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Property taxes are the worst kind of tax because holding an asset does not mean there's income to pay the taxes with. Property taxes also tax unrealized income. At least with income tax, there's income and cash flow with which to pay the tax. With sales tax, you can decide whether or not to buy something based on the total price including tax.
Since property taxes in general is a flat tax it taxes people equaly regardles of income and produces large revenues in relation to overall taxable amount this make property taxation an ideal and less burdersome tax for the taxpayer and stable source of revenue collection than for a example the highly regressive sales tax wich produces small revenues in regards to the overall taxable amount and thus indirectly lead to a higher taxable amount in relation to taxation.
But the limits Proposition 13 puts on proporty taxation makes it highly regressive and in terms of revenue generation detrimental wich leads to an much higher tax burden in relation to the taxable amount thus increases the property tax burden on the tax payer.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:24 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 35,879,215 times
Reputation: 7510
How is taxing someone with no ability to pay fair?
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,883 posts, read 7,303,848 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastRefugee2 View Post
A very bright and informed man's opinion.

Mervin Filed Questions California

I read the above with great interest. I recently saw a television program on PBS that dealt with the education system in CA., and it was an eye opener on how Prop. 13 helpd CA. get to where it is today.

The Merrow Report- First to Worst (Special Challenge of Prop 13) (http://www.pbs.org/merrow/tv/ftw/prop13.html - broken link)
Yep, no one wants to pay the fair market rate for the services they use so everything goes to hell in a handbasket. The truth is all prop 13 did was shift the tax burden off of corporations and older folks on to the younger folks who make less. It's a completely unfair and counter productive law. If you are unwilling to pay fair market rate for the services you consume then you should move some where else. It is that simple.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,883 posts, read 7,303,848 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
How is taxing someone with no ability to pay fair?
That's a red herring. Most of the tax benefit goes to corporations which never die and so retain ownership of land forever but never have to pay fair market rate. Also your average 60 year old is at the top of his life time earnings potentiality so most of them do have the ability to pay fair market rate for the services they consume. Why is it a young couple age 25 should subsidize people who make 2-3 times what they make? Prop 13 is nothing more then a tax dodge and a regressive tax on the young who make less then the middle aged.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: San Diego
123 posts, read 352,090 times
Reputation: 168
As a person who purchased their home in 1998 I am extremely grateful for Prop 13. It certainly has saved my finances as we have gone through this ridiculous housing bubble.

As an entrepreneur I extremely grateful that Prop 13 is in place. It has allowed me to forecast one component of my cost of living with reasonable accuracy. Give the politicians freedom to play with my tax rates at will and I am financially finished. Period.

As a former California high school teacher I have no doubt in my mind that Prop 13 is the least of the problems our schools have to deal with. There is plenty of money for the schools. Doubt it? Go visit the administrative facilities for a major school district. Walk around on the insides. Check out how the offices are appointed. And just try to figure out justifications for the six figure salaries of those who work there.

Prop 13 is one of the few things this state has gotten right.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:11 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 35,879,215 times
Reputation: 7510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
That's a red herring. Most of the tax benefit goes to corporations which never die and so retain ownership of land forever but never have to pay fair market rate.
Its not a red herring. It was one of the driving forces behind its passage in the first place. But if want to make it apply only to people, not corporations, fine. Of course, then when a Big Mac costs $8, you'll know why. It would also drive family farms out of business. Giving more money to government to waste is not the solution.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:15 PM
 
783 posts, read 705,010 times
Reputation: 243
Land value should decide how much property should be taxed and nothinhg more and nothing less.
everything else just creats distortions and leads to inflated property and land prices toghther with execive speculation overdevelopment of land and urban sprawl.
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