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It is definitely too easy to purchase and carry a firearm in many states. I support tougher gun control legislation and am a gun owner myself. I have trap and target shot most of my life and hold an LTC-A in Massachusetts (The toughest gun laws in the country) I do not feel as if my rights are infringed upon because I am unable to concealed carry in the urban areas of Mass (You are only allowed to transport in a car from one location to another) The people who encourage more guns and concealed carry come across as overly paranoid to me.
To each their own opinion, I'm not trying to convince you but you will not convince me (I'm a gun owner and collector)
I support a reciprocated in all 50 states conceal carry permit (like a driving license) and to demonstrate proper handling and proficiency with a firearm before issuing a concealed permit (for example here in WA your CCW is issued without any need for training) again, similarly to a driving license...I do not want to be the victim of a stray bullet if someone defending himself/herself from an assailant cannot hit the wide side of a barn at 5 yards.
I may support an obligation to have a rated safe in their homes for gun owners (to reduce the risk of stolen firearms)
Tougher gun laws (meaning harder to get guns) would not resolve any issue related to mishandling or gun related domestic violence.
The "I do not need a CCW because statistically there is no need for" argument has no merit whatsoever (again IMHO), especially coming from a gun owner.
Ease to buy a firearm...hmm, let me see, try to pass a NICS phone screening with a less than a spotless record....straw purchases can land the seller 20 years in the can.
The famous (or better say infamous) gun show loophole is not just a myth but pure fantasy...the ignorance showed by anti gun supporters on the media is legendary and appalling.
Last edited by saturno_v; 04-24-2015 at 11:43 AM..
To each their own opinion, I'm not trying to convince you but you will not convince me (I'm a gun owner and collector)
I respect your opinion and glad you do mine, I am not in the "conversion business" so to speak. I have had this same conversation at the gun club more times than you can imagine.
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I support a reciprocated in all 50 states conceal carry permit (like a driving license) and to demonstrate proper handling and proficiency with a firearm before issuing a concealed permit (for example here in WA your CCW is issued without any need for training) again, similarly to a driving license...I do not want to be the victim of a stray bullet if someone defending himself/herself from an assailant cannot hit the wide side of a barn at 5 yards.
I would favor this over what we have currently. As you mentioned anyone carrying who has not proven his/her ability to handle a firearm correctly, should not even own one, let alone concealed carry.
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Tougher gun laws (meaning harder to get guns) would not resolve any issue related to mishandling or gun related domestic violence.
A Law requiring locking devices and safe storage in the home, would prevent many of those issues. Of course this is in direct conflict with anyone who feels the need to own a gun for protection and I respect that. My views are not typical.
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The "I do not need a CCW because statistically there is no need for" argument has no merit whatsoever (again IMHO), especially coming from a gun owner.
My views on this are not shaped by my personal gun ownership, but rather my own experience. I am originally from a country where we had rifles in the home for sport but also firearms for protection, in addition to a 24hr armed guard at our gate. Trying to convince someone who came from that situation to an extremely safe country like the US, is difficult.
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Ease to buy a firearm...let's say, try to pass a NICS phone screening with a less than a spotless record....straw purchase can land the seller 20 years in the can.
The famous (or better say infamous) gun show loophole is not just a myth but pure fantasy...the ignorance showed by anti gun supporters on the media is legendary and appalling.
Agreed. This is a political issue more than anything else. Anyone who has purchased a firearm understands the process that is in place due to the Brady Bill. My stance has nothing to do with the private gun sale "loophole" but rather the ease of obtaining a firearm without proper training. The training requirements in place are a joke in many places and you and I both know that.
My stance has nothing to do with the private gun sale "loophole" but rather the ease of obtaining a firearm without proper training. The training requirements in place are a joke in many places and you and I both know that.
Here we agree completely...however, you can make training compulsory in order to carry, I think it's hard to do it only for ownership in your own house.
Even very restrictive countries (think Italy or the UK) do not require any training for only purchasing a gun and keep it at home.
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My views on this are not shaped by my personal gun ownership, but rather my own experience. I am originally from a country where we had rifles in the home for sport but also firearms for protection, in addition to a 24hr armed guard at our gate. Trying to convince someone who came from that situation to an extremely safe country like the US, is difficult.
Carrying a gun is like an insurance policy..you hope you will never have to use it...but bad luck can strike everywhere.
I respect your opinion and glad you do mine, I am not in the "conversion business" so to speak. I have had this same conversation at the gun club more times than you can imagine.
I would favor this over what we have currently. As you mentioned anyone carrying who has not proven his/her ability to handle a firearm correctly, should not even own one, let alone concealed carry.
A Law requiring locking devices and safe storage in the home, would prevent many of those issues. Of course this is in direct conflict with anyone who feels the need to own a gun for protection and I respect that. My views are not typical.
My views on this are not shaped by my personal gun ownership, but rather my own experience. I am originally from a country where we had rifles in the home for sport but also firearms for protection, in addition to a 24hr armed guard at our gate. Trying to convince someone who came from that situation to an extremely safe country like the US, is difficult.
Agreed. This is a political issue more than anything else. Anyone who has purchased a firearm understands the process that is in place due to the Brady Bill. My stance has nothing to do with the private gun sale "loophole" but rather the ease of obtaining a firearm without proper training. The training requirements in place are a joke in many places and you and I both know that.
Thank god we don't have to deal with this kind of discussion in Canada. Just saying. There are far more relevant issues to society that need urgent attention.
Carrying a gun is like an insurance policy..you hope you will never have to use it...but bad luck can strike everywhere.
No, it is quite different. An insurance policy doesn't enable bad apples who want to commit crimes to do so on a much large and more harmful scale.
Do you really expect every child, woman and senior to carry a gun every single day and be able to use it skillfully as an insurance?
Even for a well trained person, he can't carry the gun with him all the time; while criminals only need to use their gun when they want to commit a crime.
Criminals are always more prepared than the victims. If you think the damage caused by and protection to the criminals and the victims from owning a gun are symmetrical, you are wrong. It completely favours the criminal.
No, it is quite different. An insurance policy doesn't enable bad apples who want to commit crimes to do so on a much large and more harmful scale.
Do you really expect every child, woman and senior to carry a gun every single day and be able to use it skillfully as an insurance?
Even for a well trained person, he can't carry the gun with him all the time; while criminals only need to use their gun when they want to commit a crime.
Criminals are always more prepared than the victims. If you think the damage caused by and protection to the criminals and the victims from owning a gun are symmetrical, you are wrong. It completely favours the criminal.
The bad apple cannot access that insurance policy, in theory...and you still have responded to my main question...how you prevent the bad apple to get a gun...by law??
Not everyone has the inclination, skill or ability to carry a weapon for personal defense (I would argue that some people should also not drive a car)...some shouldn't even try...but we should not penalize everyone else from wanting to do it.
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Thank god we don't have to deal with this kind of discussion in Canada. Just saying.
Thank God I live in a place where I can still have these kind of discussion....
Botti you keep insisting on this point..I agree with the vast majority of what you say but I'm ready to bet that the VAST majority of people committing a crime with a gun in the US are people that current gun laws forbid to get a firearm in the first place.
You believe that with tighter gun controls, suddenly the gangs that currently in many cases have access to fully automatic weapons (as a matter of fact strictly forbidden from civilians) would run our of guns....I think you are delusional if you think that is the case.
Do you know what is the procedure to buy a firearm in the United States even in the most gun friendly state??
Personally I think it's way too late for the US to have any kind of sensible gun control.
One major part of the equation is that it's easier for a person in the US who is not allowed to have a gun to get one.
Another important factor is accidental gun deaths.
More guns, more gun deaths. It really is as simple as that.
Crime is declining in many countries because of the ageing population. Don't get me wrong, I think this is good, but it's not exclusive to the US.
This is NOT due to old age.
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