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Sprawl happens because people here love their fully detached houses with a garage and a nice backyard and 3,000+ square feet to store all their "stuff".
My buddy is the typical old dude here, thinking that "condo's" are ripoffs and buying a detached house = the only way to go (in terms of the best way to live).
My relatives all use to live downtown in small old semi-detached houses... they "upgraded" and moved to the suburbs and bought fully detached new or newer built houses. Nice clean concrete everywhere.
I use to live in a condo. I loved it. Definitely a lot less space, but it kinda forces you to only buy what you need. Quality instead of quantity.
The problem is that a lot of ppl still want houses and see high density housing as 2nd tier. We need to stop thinking that way and instead of continuing our sprawl, we encourage more ppl to buy condo's / apt's. Give small tax breaks (like that pesky land transfer tax nonsense) to condo buyers.
I agree with you and I'm not saying I'm different than anyone else in wanting a detached house. I'm saying regardless of what I want it's not sustainable to live that way.
All cities are sprawl in the world is goes down is it low, medium or high density sprawl.
Canada it seems has been limiting growth in 90s and may be bit in the 80s. If farmland is more prime in Canada than say the Midwest or south in the US that could be why. It is also could be those cities built out in the 90s or even in the 80s.
You have to show source if poll of GTA folks are appose sprawl as it only you and saying that the case.
Now if it is a farmland issue that is other issue all together. I don’t think people in the GTA are any different than the Midwest or South when comes to culture of driving vehicle and house.
But if the there is very little available farmland in Canada unlike the US that could be the reason the government is limiting sprawl no matter what people want.
For some reason we're going in circles. I never said what Torontonians might want. I'm certain the province has a say in it too. But governments are made of people like you and me and if they are limiting sprawl, I'd suggest Ontarians must want it that way and good for them. Otherwise the government would be voted out.
But I must say to my ears it sounds like such a typical city person way of thinking, that because there is "empty" land in some area it must or should be available. Sheesh! I've had to tell people escaping the city to live a country life to get off my land, no, it's not yours to use just because it looks "empty" to you. Im annoyed and aggravated just thinking about it!
It also makes me think of someone my contractor hired to do some work in my house because he was poor and had a difficult life. So the guy told me yesterday he was moving into a house from a trailer because his life had taken a turn for the better due to help from the community. And he said he was sure he wouldn't get his damage deposit back because the carpet was wrecked by damage his children did and therefore he might as well completely wreck the house because the SOB landlord was going to keep his damage deposit no matter what.
Entitlement. That's what this subject reminds me of. Now I will go outside and ride my horse and get rid of my aggravation.
This thread feels like we’re all misunderstanding each other. The greenbelt is a zone set at the provincial level that restricts development on private land. It was set up when the GTA had 2-3 million people. Now the GTA has ~6.5 million people and there’s heavy restrictions on density in much of the city to prevent apartments or townhouses from being built, as well as a complete ban on development immediately outside the city in many areas (the greenbelt). This is why places like Barrie and Milton have had their populations explode even though they’re very far from downtown Toronto. The GTA is expected to grow to 10-15 million people in the near future and I agree we should allow densification within the city, we should also consider maybe the greenbelt who’s boundaries are nearly 30 years old should be redrawn. Otherwise, not only will all the newcomers have nowhere to go, housing will continue to be too expensive for anyone to buy their first house or local workers to even rent a place for their families. It’s already too expensive for everyone making below the mid hundreds of thousands per year range to enter the market and buy a starter condo, and it’s only going to get worse. Most people who own houses couldn’t buy the house they’re in, or any house or condo for that matter, if it was their first time buying today.
This thread feels like we’re all misunderstanding each other. The greenbelt is a zone set at the provincial level that restricts development on private land. It was set up when the GTA had 2-3 million people.
When was this drawn up in the 70s or 80s?
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Now the GTA has ~6.5 million people and there’s heavy restrictions on density in much of the city to prevent apartments or townhouses from being built, as well as a complete ban on development immediately outside the city in many areas (the greenbelt).
That seems to be problem the GTA has but is that also the case in Niagara, St. Catharines, and Kitchener?
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This is why places like Barrie and Milton have had their populations explode even though they’re very far from downtown Toronto.
So those cities did not have green belts drawn up?
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The GTA is expected to grow to 10-15 million people in the near future and I agree we should allow densification within the city, we should also consider maybe the greenbelt who’s boundaries are nearly 30 years old should be redrawn.
Unless they move to some other cities?
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Otherwise, not only will all the newcomers have nowhere to go, housing will continue to be too expensive for anyone to buy their first house or local workers to even rent a place for their families. It’s already too expensive for everyone making below the mid hundreds of thousands per year range to enter the market and buy a starter condo, and it’s only going to get worse. Most people who own houses couldn’t buy the house they’re in, or any house or condo for that matter, if it was their first time buying today.
But you can’t buy a house for $300,000 to $400,000 in southern Ontario any more.
The GTA is expected to grow to 10-15 million people in the near future and I agree we should allow densification within the city, we should also consider maybe the greenbelt who’s boundaries are nearly 30 years old should be redrawn.
RBC economists: “We expect higher interest rates to keep curbing buyers’ enthusiasm for months to come, while possibly forcing the hand of some current owners to sell.”
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So the avg condo is about 640 square ft. That is basically a bachelor's apt. It's okay for a single or new cpl.
If laid out properly it can work... it forces one to limit the amount of stuff they accumulate.
I think most of us are spoiled. We are use to 1,500 or more square feet of living space... but if you really think about it, most of it is just excess space. Unless you entertain a lot, how much space do you need to live comfortably?
I suspect in the future, big cities like Toronto will be mostly small condo's or low rises. Ppl will learn to live with less and if you want a big property, you will need to move far outside the GTA area.
So the avg condo is about 640 square ft. That is basically a bachelor's apt. It's okay for a single or new cpl.
If laid out properly it can work... it forces one to limit the amount of stuff they accumulate.
I think most of us are spoiled. We are use to 1,500 or more square feet of living space... but if you really think about it, most of it is just excess space. Unless you entertain a lot, how much space do you need to live comfortably?
I suspect in the future, big cities like Toronto will be mostly small condo's or low rises. Ppl will learn to live with less and if you want a big property, you will need to move far outside the GTA area.
I admit that a 640 sq. ft. would seem too small for me, but it all depends on lifestyle. For example, if the owner is young and enjoys going out often with friends for dinner, nightclubbing, or other activities, it might be perfect, particularly if their workplace is not far away. If the owner has access to a family cottage, then maybe they regularly visit there on weekends. Or perhaps they travel often.
Personally, I would ask myself first if it was really necessary to stay in Toronto at all if it meant living in such a cramped condo. There are jobs elsewhere.
Until we can get a firmer grasp on housing supply in this country, we should reduce the throttle on heavy immigration. I don't buy the notion that we need more immigrants now to build homes. The construction sector in Canada is actually losing jobs. How is it possible that we have huge housing demand yet we are losing construction jobs. Well, interest rates have soured not only the appetite but the ability for individuals to finance a mortgage. Double whammy is that interest rates haven't just gone up for prospective homebuyers, but also for developers to finance new projects. The only reason housing is still so expensive in the GTA and other parts of Canada is extremely low supply. It is certainly not increases in wages which in this country, have been relatively stagnant for decades (which is another story but is linked to lower productivity investments in Canada than other western nations).
We have some significant structural issues in this country when it comes to housing and right now, it isn't a good environment at all to be feeding more demand where supply is precipitously low.
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