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As Is Null mentioned, there's lots of undeveloped land in MP. Here in Carolina Park, along Park Avenue, there's room. And if it's away from residential (out toward the 17 end) I don't see the problem. As long as it's done nicely. Take a drive through DI's office park where there's walking trails, lots of green space, plenty of space between the buildings, a restaurant for people to eat lunch/dinner at, plus a hotel for out of town corporate guests. People in MP are OK with a Costco and a Lowes but not with an office park that provides good jobs? I never heard the people on DI complaining about the office park, nor are they complaining about the new office buildings going into the downtown area. Because it was designed properly as a commercial center.
MP had the perfect opportunity years ago to develop all the raw land in North MP the same way DI developed their raw land, with a commercial hub (downtown with a mix of residential and office buildings and retail) and a corporate office park away from residential, but instead chose rampant sprawl that appears to have no sense of design or plan other than perhaps Towne Centre. I don't know if that was Town Council's fault or lack of any planning, but it seems from these conversations that it's Town Council, and the planning department has little power.
I'd be curious to see what % of MP people who have a job commute out of MP, and what % of MP people who work IN MP at a job located in MP (not one they brought from home or telecommute to) make a decent wage. Every statistic I've read, the bulk of the jobs in MP are low-paying retail and service jobs or at small businesses/medical offices that pay in the $10-$12/hr range. Just a glance at Indeed backs that up.
Right now in MP there are 787 FT jobs that pay 15K ($7/hr), 652 that pay 20K ($10/hr), 453 that pay 25K ($12/hr), 330 that pay 30K ($14/hr), 165 that pay 40K ($19/hr) and 37 that pay 50K ($24/hr). Nothing in the 60K, 70K, 80K and up ranges. So 37 jobs situated in MP that pay barely a living wage.
Even though a corporate company like Blackbaud or Benefit Focus may hire specialized labor, they also hire plenty of support and non-tech people too - customer service, administration, operations, sales.
-Closer retail to residential centers will work.
Once Lowe’s, Home Depot, and Costco are up and running, aside from work, I’ll have little reason to leave a 4 mile bubble.
-moving work closer to residential areas will increase more than decrease traffic. As mentioned earlier, people in Mount Pleasant already have jobs. The odds of your industry moving conveniently closer to your house is slim to none. It would be more beneficial to hand out tax breaks to companies to encourage white collar workers to work from home a few days a week.
-public transportation stigma will always be there. It’s too slow.
-more bike lanes are needed, but not to reduce traffic. Realistically pretty much nobody rides their bike to work even if the whole city was paved with bike trails. Not only enough to reduce traffic anyway.
-widening roads sometimes makes it worse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox
-the final segment of Billy Swails Blvd between 6 Mile and Hamlin Rd should help.
The stigma on public transportation isn't about the speed of the bus, it's about being to good to ride the bus. I ride the express bus into work often and the speed of the transportation isn't bad, it's how often the buses run and that's part of the investment portion. The express buses are full every morning and afternoon with CoC and MUSC employees.
Personally I don't see much help from Billy Swails Blvd. It doesn't support enough lanes of traffic and the speed limit is 10mph less than 17. There's a need for a true alternative corridor that is more express in nature than 17. Your paradox reference is based on network choice. In MtP there really isn't much choice due to geographical constraints. I don't think anyone would agree that commute times on 17 got worse when they expanded it. I'm suggesting key roads may need expanding and an alternative express route be developed.
The reason why people don't bike to work is two fold. They don't work nearby and the bus/bike combination is hampered by issues with buses. At times I will ride my bike to the bus stop and take both the bus to work. Other times (often based on parenting duties), I'll carry my bike on my car and drive to the bus stop then ride the bus. In both cases the final leg is a bike ride from the stop to the office. However, I'm one of the few that do this and the buses only take two bikes per bus.
Creating more white collar work spaces (and the challenge is price per sq foot) isn't a short term play which is what you're making it. No, it wont solve much initially, but over time it does. People move on, new people come in that want to live closer to work.
I'd love to see the places you think you could put an office complex in MtP that wouldn't have the community up in arms.
Midtown
Venning Rd
Behind Abide A While
Huge areas across from Boone Hall between 17 and Rifle Range
Beside Jennie Moore on Billy Swails Blvd
Large areas north of Khols
Large areas north of Mellow Mushroom
Huge sections between Park West and Carolina Park
However, sometimes the Town needs to just weather the "community being up in arms" storm.
As Is Null mentioned, there's lots of undeveloped land in MP. Here in Carolina Park, along Park Avenue, there's room. And if it's away from residential (out toward the 17 end) I don't see the problem. As long as it's done nicely. Take a drive through DI's office park where there's walking trails, lots of green space, plenty of space between the buildings, a restaurant for people to eat lunch/dinner at, plus a hotel for out of town corporate guests. People in MP are OK with a Costco and a Lowes but not with an office park that provides good jobs? I never heard the people on DI complaining about the office park, nor are they complaining about the new office buildings going into the downtown area. Because it was designed properly as a commercial center.
MP had the perfect opportunity years ago to develop all the raw land in North MP the same way DI developed their raw land, with a commercial hub (downtown with a mix of residential and office buildings and retail) and a corporate office park away from residential, but instead chose rampant sprawl that appears to have no sense of design or plan other than perhaps Towne Centre. I don't know if that was Town Council's fault or lack of any planning, but it seems from these conversations that it's Town Council, and the planning department has little power.
I'd be curious to see what % of MP people who have a job commute out of MP, and what % of MP people who work IN MP at a job located in MP (not one they brought from home or telecommute to) make a decent wage. Every statistic I've read, the bulk of the jobs in MP are low-paying retail and service jobs or at small businesses/medical offices that pay in the $10-$12/hr range. Just a glance at Indeed backs that up.
Right now in MP there are 787 FT jobs that pay 15K ($7/hr), 652 that pay 20K ($10/hr), 453 that pay 25K ($12/hr), 330 that pay 30K ($14/hr), 165 that pay 40K ($19/hr) and 37 that pay 50K ($24/hr). Nothing in the 60K, 70K, 80K and up ranges. So 37 jobs situated in MP that pay barely a living wage.
Even though a corporate company like Blackbaud or Benefit Focus may hire specialized labor, they also hire plenty of support and non-tech people too - customer service, administration, operations, sales.
I doubt most people care either way about office parks in Mount Pleasant (provided they're not on Shem Creek apparently). The problem rather is with office parks themselves' reluctance to move to the edge of Mount Pleasant miles from the nearest interstate. Land is expensive and the location isn't ideal. From an alleviating traffic standpoint it's terrible. The entire office park's workforce will be commuting in one direction. Even if they managed to employ 10% of Carolina Park's residents, 90% will be commuting.
I don't know if you realize this or not, but Carolina Park is the raw land development in North MP you're talking about. It won't look like DI yet because DI is 3 times larger and 20 years old, and conveniently located right off of the interstate in the center of the metro area's trade zone. Otherwise the mix of commercial, retail, and residential is very similar minus the apartments on top of the storefronts thing. If you aren't already, you should start reading the minutes from the council meetings. Mount Pleasant, SC - Official Website
There's much more to every decision than just haphazard planning. You'll also want to read up on the comprehensive plan Mount Pleasant, SC - Official Website.
I know you have Daniel Island on a pedestal, but the waiters, cashiers, and BlackBaud's office admin people aren't necessarily living on Daniel Island making $80K a year. They're commuting just like everybody else. The great thing however with those $10-$20 retail jobs, is their work shifts are far more staggered vs a factory or office that has the entire workforce show up at exactly the same time overwhelming traffic all at once.
The stigma on public transportation isn't about the speed of the bus, it's about being to good to ride the bus. I ride the express bus into work often and the speed of the transportation isn't bad, it's how often the buses run and that's part of the investment portion. The express buses are full every morning and afternoon with CoC and MUSC employees.
Personally I don't see much help from Billy Swails Blvd. It doesn't support enough lanes of traffic and the speed limit is 10mph less than 17. There's a need for a true alternative corridor that is more express in nature than 17. Your paradox reference is based on network choice. In MtP there really isn't much choice due to geographical constraints. I don't think anyone would agree that commute times on 17 got worse when they expanded it. I'm suggesting key roads may need expanding and an alternative express route be developed.
The reason why people don't bike to work is two fold. They don't work nearby and the bus/bike combination is hampered by issues with buses. At times I will ride my bike to the bus stop and take both the bus to work. Other times (often based on parenting duties), I'll carry my bike on my car and drive to the bus stop then ride the bus. In both cases the final leg is a bike ride from the stop to the office. However, I'm one of the few that do this and the buses only take two bikes per bus.
Creating more white collar work spaces (and the challenge is price per sq foot) isn't a short term play which is what you're making it. No, it wont solve much initially, but over time it does. People move on, new people come in that want to live closer to work.
Billy Swails will be huge. I'll take 10 mph less than 17 if it means exchanging redlights for traffic circles like Rifle Range does. Along with Billy Swails is also the Longpoint Extension that'll connect Long Point to Billy Swails and Rifle Range. Coming off the interstate heading north you could either take Long Point or Hungryneck to Billy Swails or Rifle Range and bypass 17. Either way, that's 3 different avenues to take in the north and south direction. I'll be off 17 anyway. As a bonus, Billy Swails will have a bike trail the entire length up until you get to the DMV on Hungry Neck. Hopefully they extend that to the Town Center.
Midtown
Venning Rd
Behind Abide A While
Huge areas across from Boone Hall between 17 and Rifle Range
Beside Jennie Moore on Billy Swails Blvd
Large areas north of Khols
Large areas north of Mellow Mushroom
Huge sections between Park West and Carolina Park
However, sometimes the Town needs to just weather the "community being up in arms" storm.
Yep, that office building went up on Shem Creek and the sky didn't fall. I think it looks awesome.
The comprehensive plan is being reworked now and office space is on the list. It was on the original plan, but got phased out by the Council in favor of residential. When I leave MtP in the morning, all the traffic is going out, not in. When I come home in the afternoon all the traffic is coming to MtP, not leaving. (At least on 17).
Placing jobs in MtP that people have to travel to would be heading in the opposite direction of most traffic.
Billy Swails will be huge. I'll take 10 mph less than 17 if it means exchanging redlights for traffic circles like Rifle Range does. Along with Billy Swails is also the Longpoint Extension that'll connect Long Point to Billy Swails and Rifle Range. Coming off the interstate heading north you could either take Long Point or Hungryneck to Billy Swails or Rifle Range and bypass 17. Either way, that's 3 different avenues to take in the north and south direction. I'll be off 17 anyway. As a bonus, Billy Swails will have a bike trail the entire length up until you get to the DMV on Hungry Neck. Hopefully they extend that to the Town Center.
That only works if Billy Swails is 4 lanes. It's currently 2.
The problem rather is with office parks themselves' reluctance to move to the edge of Mount Pleasant miles from the nearest interstate. Land is expensive and the location isn't ideal.
As a strategic positioning office area in the northern part of town isn't a bad idea as that's where the growth will mainly be in MtP. However, I completely agree that the land is expensive and the impact fees make the cost function hard. If I'm a business, why rent or buy space in MtP when I can do it in North Chuck for half the price?
The comprehensive plan is being reworked now and office space is on the list. It was on the original plan, but got phased out by the Council in favor of residential. When I leave MtP in the morning, all the traffic is going out, not in. When I come home in the afternoon all the traffic is coming to MtP, not leaving. (At least on 17).
Placing jobs in MtP that people have to travel to would be heading in the opposite direction of most traffic.
Actually I was about to note the opposite on 526. For some reason traffic is crawling out of Mt P in the afternoon and opposite in the morning.
From what I understand the Council is against all growth, so I'm not sure what the benefit of zoning commercial for residential would be. For planning communities with developers agreements like Carolina Park, I don't see the Council being able to do much about the original zoning. I do think there is more of a market however for residential vs commercial, so some of that might be the developer's fault. Commerical is a hard sell given the high cost and non central location of Mount Pleasant, while residential is popular given the schools and proximity to downtown and the beaches. Just due to geography and the market, Mt P seems destined to be a bedroom community regardless of zoning.
I think some traffic issues will resolve when the second high school opens at the old Wando location. Right now I notice a lot of traffic heading toward Wando in the morning and afternoon and all leaving Wando at the same time shortly afterward.
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