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How does giving taxpayer money to a football team increase productivity or output...any additional money spent on entertainment uptown is just money that would have been spent elsewhere; so you are most likely taking away from some other part of the region to spend it in the city...
That is always a question that is brought up. And, I don't think there is an easy answer. Folks who don't spend on the Panthers may spend the money on college sports outside of Charlotte. For instance, when the Panthers wanted to play at Williams-Brice, the AD at the time refused because he did not want to compete for entertainment dollars with the Panthers. So, if the Panthers are not here, the money could be spent in Columbia, Chapel Hill, Charleston or elsewhere. If the Panthers are not here, Sunday afternoons may be spent at the beach more often exhausting entertainment dollars spent in Charlotte.
But, I am not sure that is half of the story. There is an intrinsic value to Charlotte that is hard to quantify. Being on national TV for night games, playoff games that show a very excited city, coverage of the city across the country all help generate interest in the city. Charlotte is seen as the leading city in both Carolinas which in part is due to exposure on TV. We don't have a major college team in this area that will ever be in the SEC, Big10 or the other major conferences that could take up some slack in the sports arena.
Finally, the easiest numbers to look at at direct payroll taxes. The NFL has a salary cap and minimum cap. Since 2 teams play 10 games on an annual basis at the stadium, using the Panthers salary cap as the baseline provides a good representation of the salary basis for the NFL in Charlotte. That will be around $125m this year and rises each year due to TV contracts. That salary in addition to support staff would roughly be $150m. On a 15 year timeframe, that cash flow to the state has a present value well above what the team has asked the state to provide. The numbers are far enough apart to allow for nitpicking so, this would be an acceptable investment. We just gave $119m to Met Life for a salary base of $221m so, on a comparative basis, the Panthers are not out of the park. Met Life will employ more people but there is absolutely no intrinsic value other than maybe a visit from the Met Life Blimp.
There is a lot of noise about what the Panther's which is interesting but completely irrelevant. The question before the city and state is that there are more cities wanting an NFL team than currently exist, a shortage. Econ 101 would suggest that the price rises, which it has. The Panthers privately funded BOA Stadium. I understand that the stadium is on public land but, when the team came, it was the first stadium financed primarily with private funds. Based on what current stadiums are receiving in public money, the Panthers are not out of line with this request. But, for some, there are predefined constraints on government providing money to "spoiled millionaires".. I personally think that is an immature view to take as the benefits of having the NFL far outweigh not having a team for a small market like Charlotte.
Indeed. Not counting the TV deals which is another $65M, this means Richardson is making $$$1/2 Billion/decade AFTER expenses including player salaries. IMO, it's difficult to justify giving state tax money to such a rich organization.
This news is pretty much going to seal the state's resolve NOT to fork over more money.
Indeed. Not counting the TV deals which is another $65M, this means Richardson is making $$$1/2 Billion/decade AFTER expenses including player salaries. IMO, it's difficult to justify giving state tax money to such a rich organization.
This news is pretty much going to seal the state's resolve NOT to fork over more money.
It's not news that Richardson and the Panthers can afford to pay for the renovations themselves. But the fact of the matter is what the Panthers are asking for is small compared to what a majority of the other NFL teams have received, and if the Panthers don't get it it certainly opens up the possibility of them moving somewhere else.
No, I don't know of any studies that are specific to Charlotte, but giving out taxpayer money to NFL teams wouldn't be so commonplace if the cities didn't think having the team there was beneficial. You are entitled to your opinion that Charlotte would be fine without the Panthers, but many people would disagree with you.
Indeed. Not counting the TV deals which is another $65M, this means Richardson is making $$$1/2 Billion/decade AFTER expenses including player salaries. IMO, it's difficult to justify giving state tax money to such a rich organization.
This news is pretty much going to seal the state's resolve NOT to fork over more money.
Here is why this is irrelevant, Met Life is being celebrated as a major economic investment in NC. And, I agree with the incentives. But, Met Life has a market cap of $40b, cash on the balance sheet of $43b, and annual net income of 1.2b, annual revenue of $69b. If the state celebrates providing assistance to a company with these financial resources, then looking at the Internet financial statement if the Panthers is irrelevant. Yet another reason that referendums are a joke.
Do you agree with the incentives provided to Met Life?
Why did you raise this as an issue in this topic when it appears that you don't even live in NC? I personally have been paying tax support to the Panthers for decades now. My post history proves I live here. Where exactly do you live?
Why is it relevant?
Bacause, as I've said before, it's easy to advocate for new taxes when you won't be the one paying them. Get back to me when you can prove that you actually live in Mecklenburg county.
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FWIW, I have been in Charlotte for over 17 years and live in an area where I pay way more in property taxes than most. So, yes, I pay Meck county taxes and have every right to post here or elsewhere. So, you can put your censorship hat back in the closet.
What tax are you paying to the Panthers?
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 03-09-2013 at 09:53 AM..
Reason: off topic flaming
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The guys in the SC forums believe you to be a forumer who lives in the upstate and there is nothing in your post history that suggests that you live here. Someone who did live here 17 years would not have made the mistake of believing that BofA stadium was not built without taxes. Do I really care? No. But....
People who don't live in Mecklenburg can certainly advocate for a football team. But if they are not paying the taxes to support it then I find their cries for more taxes with no referrendum to be disingenuous at best. Most of us here are here to discuss this in terms of the community we live in. I have no interest in debating generalizations about professional football from those who don't.
The state of NC has decided there won't be additional taxes raised for the Panthers. It's a done deal, and news about how rich Richardson is, means they made the right decision. If you were actually a resident here, you could complain to your elected representative instead of to me.
(Some advice, next time, don't make it personal. That sword cuts both ways. Stick to the facts of the topic and you will have a better discussion. )
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 03-09-2013 at 09:54 AM..
Reason: orphan: the referring post edited or deleted
The guys in the SC forums believe you to be a forumer who lives in the upstate and there is nothing in your post history that suggests that you live here. Someone who did live here 17 years would not have made the mistake of believing that BofA stadium was not built without taxes. Do I really care? No. But....
People who don't live in Mecklenburg can certainly advocate for a football team. But if they are not paying the taxes to support it then I find their cries for more taxes with no referrendum to be disingenuous at best. Most of us here are here to discuss this in terms of the community we live in. I have no interest in debating generalizations about professional football from those who don't.
The state of NC has decided there won't be additional taxes raised for the Panthers. It's a done deal, and news about how rich Richardson is, means they made the right decision. If you were actually a resident here, you could complain to your elected representative instead of to me.
I have a lot of family in SC.
But, I have lived in Meck County for a 17 years and yes, knew that the land under the stadium was prepared for the team.
How do we know you live here? I can post on a nYC forum 1,000 times but, that is not Perot that I live there. You simply don't like the fact that someone disagrees with you and has a strong argument. On two occasions you have tried to discredit my post with silly irrelevant questions. Seems as though you may be afraid of facts.
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 03-09-2013 at 09:55 AM..
Reason: the referring quote was edited
One thing that I have forgoten in this whole debate is that McCrory (along with Lynn Wheeler) did work to have an arena built downtown. I doubt he would want to be the governor who watches the Panthers leave town. As mayor, he worked against folks like Don Reid, Mike Jackson and the other neo cons at Reid's breakfast meetings.
Interesting story on WSOC. A lot of people apparently are outraged at the Panthers for asking for the money if the Deadspin article is true. The Panthers for it's part, has not denied the article but says it tells an "incomplete" story. LOL
They repeated McCrory's statement in that there is no state money for the Panthers. Good for McCrory.
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