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Not familiar with the city bus lines, but are there or could there be "special express buses" to run this route.
While Independence has an express lane for buses, technically, the only express buses we have per say run during the rush hours only. These are limited stop commuter lines which cost more per ride and are in the style of a charter bus and not high occupancy plastic chair type of ride that the regular buses have. They even have reading lamps and plush reclining seats.
The bottom line for many, if not most, people is that it will be slow,stuck on tracks (not easily rerouted), and extremely costly, and will do nothing a bus isn't currently doing. It will do nothing to ease congestion.
I was living in Pittsburgh when the Trolleys were "active." I used them occasionally when I was in school. The dreaded trolley tracks made driving difficult at times, they could easily throw you car off course. If they are going to have those trolley island stops, more than a few auto drivers lost their life striking them.
As far as I know there are no more trolleys in Pittsburgh.
The bottom line for many, if not most, people is that it will be slow, stuck on tracks (not easily rerouted), and extremely costly, and will do nothing a bus isn't currently doing. It will do nothing to ease congestion.
Not totally correct. A streetcar adds the flexibility to carry a much larger capacity.
Additionally, it lacks the poor stigma associated with a bus (however unwarranted) and will likely garner solid ridership numbers. That said, a streetcar isn't a commuter line, like light rail. It is built with the idea of being a neighborhood connector. Riding 1-2 stops and getting off as opposed to riding one end to the other.
It's certainly factual that a streetcar lacks the re-routing flexibility of a bus, but that inability to re-route is what gives the streetcar a more "concrete" impression for home buyers and business owners. If I am building a restaurant or bar or store that I know has a targeted demographic of urban dwellers, building along a streetcar line guarantees I will always have pedestrian traffic via transit riders. Building along a bus line could mean tomorrow the line gets moved the road over and my streetcape is dead.
I think it's also important to note, many are much more apt to purchase a condo or home along a rail line as opposed to a bus if one of their pre-requisites for purchase is orientation to transit. I've lived along both in Charlotte and used both. But it's nice to know the blue line (like the soon to be steetcar) isn't going anywhere.
The bottom line for many, if not most, people is that it will be slow, stuck on tracks (not easily rerouted), and extremely costly, and will do nothing a bus isn't currently doing. It will do nothing to ease congestion.
Thank you. If anything its going to create more traffic by taking up a lane that was easily accessible by cars and Trade street is narrow already.
If the city wants that vintage look dont know why we want this in 21st century but have Gold Rush do a route this way except give them different color schemes as I have no clue when I get on one which direction its going and add padded seats as cyrrent ones are extremely uncomfortable.
I would have a hard time trusting the street car to get me to work on time with the likelihood of a vehicle accident being able to throw the whole schedule off. How do these brilliant minds plan to address this? A bus can just go right around a wreck. Anything on rails and you'll wish it had a bathroom or a bar car. A minor fender bendre is no big deal. There is already law stating the car must be moved out of the way (not that many actually care) but the wrecks with major damage or where a real emergency response is needed and you've got a street car just sitting, costing money and not earning a nickel.
Thank you. If anything its going to create more traffic by taking up a lane that was easily accessible by cars and Trade street is narrow already.
If the city wants that vintage look dont know why we want this in 21st century but have Gold Rush do a route this way except give them different color schemes as I have no clue when I get on one which direction its going and add padded seats as cyrrent ones are extremely uncomfortable.
Those "trolley" cars are temporary. If the new 2.5 miles is added in, we will purchase new rolling stock similar to what you see in Toronto, Portland or the new Atlanta line. Initially, the trolley cars will be used simply as a cost saving measure. I'm not very fond of them, simply because they imply a "toy-like" quality to the line as opposed to a modern people mover. But it is a sensible option considering our current financial situation. Let's also not forget, prior to those swanky Siemens light rail cars, these were the same trolley's chugging through South End as recently as 2004.
The bottom line for many, if not most, people is that it will be slow, stuck on tracks (not easily rerouted), and extremely costly, and will do nothing a bus isn't currently doing. It will do nothing to ease congestion.
My thought is the money. Does the public ever get worn down by all the spending and borrowing? Streetcar on top of Stadium and on top of Streetcar is more property tax and on top of more property tax is higher water bills.
"Water" (services in/out/fall on my house) is due to go up as much as the $ I actually use in water. 1/10 of my bill is actually water. Why does this have to go up every year?
And the city cannot know yet the impact of the reval. Plus, part of the idea to not raise property tax (it is going up just not for the street car) is to borrow money AND use money from investments.
Now, I'm sure those at the gov center are smarter about money than I am, but that seems the opposite of conservative. Not sure those chickens are ready to be hatched unless they are stating money already realized and not expected money.
I'm sure our rainy day fund is solid or we wouldn't be looking at raiding internal AND external funding but it just seems like a lot at once.
Why not save up a bit, realize the investment money (maybe Dow 15K is all we need to build whatever we want) and see how we get hit on reval.
Do most people see this as progress because we are building shiny new things? I got to hook up with Warren Cooksey to compare notes. Dulin has been kind of cranky lately.
If it's so great for business, then have the businesses along the line pay for the whole thing. After all, a business will have guaranteed foot traffic. They should see a return on that investment in a jiffy. The stigma associated with buses is changing slowly and for the better. It won't win over the majority of the population, but I see more and more people riding everyday.
Also, I would have a hard time trusting the street car to get me to work on time with the likelihood of a vehicle accident being able to throw the whole schedule off. How do these brilliant minds plan to address this? A bus can just go right around a wreck. Anything on rails and you'll wish it had a bathroom or a bar car. A minor fender bendre is no big deal. There is already law stating the car must be moved out of the way (not that many actually care) but the wrecks with major damage or where a real emergency response is needed and you've got a street car just sitting, costing money and not earning a nickel.
The business option is a great idea and has actually been discussed. Something along the lines of simply taxing those that will directly benefit along the proposed line, as opposed to the whole city. I'm not so obtuse as to believe someone living in Ballantyne will often reap the rewards of a streetcar down Elizabeth ave. But if it does bolster, densify and develop the area, at least it will help further develop the tax base which is a positive for those in Ballantyne, South Charlotte, University, ect. Plus, one day it could be part of a more integrated line, so the benefit may not be here today, but possibly in the future.
As an aside, I would certainly ride the street car to work. The likelihood of it being in an accident, I'd imagine, is certainly not that much greater than if you were in your own vehicle. Plus worse case, I'd just get off the thing and walk. That said, I would be curious to see some statistics on it, as you bring up a good point.
The business option is a great idea and has actually been discussed. Something along the lines of simply taxing those that will directly benefit along the proposed line, as opposed to the whole city.
The city owes Elizabeth big time. Sure they are saying now how they are excited for it and big time property owners are salivating but man did they do a number on the last decade and there's still nothing there for them.
Could we see a similar thing on the next leg or has the city become an expert on such things?
We love the streetcar but:
"We've all waited for this. I remember when they tore this street up, and killed a lot of great businesses, and a lot people lost a lot of money. Hopefully it becomes positive now,"
Hopefully. But I bet anyone in the path of that thing now is nervous though I guess there's not a bunch of places to eat and foot traffic in the next leg.
But taking 2 years to do something that was forecast to take 6 months, and killing of business isn't going to have them lining up to get on board. I think that train has already left the station.
The city owes Elizabeth big time. Sure they are saying now how they are excited for it and big time property owners are salivating but man did they do a number on the last decade and there's still nothing there for them.
Could we see a similar thing on the next leg or has the city become an expert on such things?
We love the streetcar but:
"We've all waited for this. I remember when they tore this street up, and killed a lot of great businesses, and a lot people lost a lot of money. Hopefully it becomes positive now,"
Hopefully. But I bet anyone in the path of that thing now is nervous though I guess there's not a bunch of places to eat and foot traffic in the next leg.
But taking 2 years to do something that was forecast to take 6 months, and killing of business isn't going to have them lining up to get on board. I think that train has already left the station.
No doubt. I lived in Elizabeth for 2 years and saw it first hand. I was referring to those areas that do no currently have tracks on the ground. As the 1.5 mile starter line is already under construction, those folks need to be left alone. They've paid their dues and I am VERY hopeful that this investments pays off for them.
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