Western or NW burbs like Flossmoor (Chicago, Elmhurst: middle-class, homes, neighborhoods)

[oldhousegirl]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

H/F is cheap because there are few high paying employers within easy commuting distance. The University of Chicago and the hospitals are about it. Downtown Chicago is doable but it's a long slog on clogged expressways, or else a ride on a train that rarely comes. If you can live in H/F and make a good living without a nightmare commute, you've got it made.

Fair and good point. I will say that after living in the south where the simplest of trips can be a solid 10 miles away down a two lane hilly, winding country road with cars inches from your bumper; I have a whole new appreciation regarding distances lol . Suddenly that 30 mile trek into downtown on an expressway that has multiple off/on spots and actual side streets if one runs into traffic snarls doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I spoke with a friend who is still in suburban Chicago yesterday. When I mentioned we had toyed with the idea of coming back she was dumfounded as to why lol.

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by webbermishoe

Actually the commute by train is very convenient. Metra Electric is the most convenient in proximity to downtown and reliable. You can get downtown in about 30 minutes during rush hour incoming and outgoing. There is no such thing as a perfect area as this pandemic has shown us. My hairstylist informed me that his friend was robbed in the West Loop this week of his car and photography equipment. “Perfect” areas can be turned to not so perfect areas in a heartbeat.

That's an impressive time, 30 miles in 30 minutes. The fastest Northwestern (Metra North) train to Wilmette takes 22 minutes and it's 14 miles.

[webbermishoe]

Yes. The rush hour trains may make about three stops from Millennium Station to Homewood. Van Buren, 12th street, and 55th. It goes express all the way to Homewood.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

In comparing Chicagoland to other areas of the country, I'd have to compare them on a "cost per square foot plus RE taxes" basis. Meaning, since the taxes are higher, you have to pay that much less per square foot of property in Chicagoland to break even. Keeping in mind, that as your taxes outpace inflation each year (which is what has occurred in the past, and will likely happen going forward, unless the county or state goes belly up to shed its pension obligations, which isn't likely), your actual property appreciation will be less. If it's still worth it to you, knock yourself out, God Bless.

For me, especially as a retiree, the choice is northeast TN or northwest AR any day, trading significantly better winter weather for somewhat hotter/muggier summer weather, well worth it IMHO. Obviously, you don't have as much "diversity", but that can be a positive or negative depending on your POV - it's a no-brainer for me, especially with the BLM antics of late.

[oldhousegirl]

Oh Chicago!! Many people have a love/hate relationship with you. Get your act together and folks will run to return "home".

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by oldhousegirl

Oh Chicago!! Many people have a love/hate relationship with you. Get your act together and folks will run to return "home".

I think it's too late for that, due to the almost insurmountable debt requiring ever-higher levels of taxation, the inept politicians who pander to criminals, the horrible traffic, the lousy housing appreciation in many areas (caused mostly by the ever-higher real estate taxes), big cities now being seen as Covid-engines, BLM pretty much running the city at this point, the "Defund the Police" idiots being taken WAY too seriously, etc., etc.. Just not nearly as much to love as there used to be, the pendulum has swung too far to the dark side, too many minuses and not enough pluses to consider moving here, at least in 2020. Now, if Marty McFly could return us all back to 1980? Who wants to go to ChicagoFest tonight, Woo, Hoo!

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

I think it's too late for that, due to the almost insurmountable debt requiring ever-higher levels of taxation, the inept politicians who pander to criminals, the horrible traffic, the lousy housing appreciation in many areas (caused mostly by the ever-higher real estate taxes), big cities now being seen as Covid-engines, BLM pretty much running the city at this point, the "Defund the Police" idiots being taken WAY too seriously, etc., etc.. Just not nearly as much to love as there used to be, the pendulum has swung too far to the dark side, too many minuses and not enough pluses to consider moving here, at least in 2020. Now, if Marty McFly could return us all back to 1980? Who wants to go to ChicagoFest tonight, Woo, Hoo!

Chicago (until the riots) is actually better off than it was in 1980. Where I lived, in Lakeview, the gentrified area didn't reach past Southport. Now it goes all the way into Avondale. Similar stories can be told about the whole North Side. The near west and near south side redevelopments hadn't started and south of about Harrison on the lakefront was a horrible slum until you got to Hyde Park.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

Chicago (until the riots) is actually better off than it was in 1980. Where I lived, in Lakeview, the gentrified area didn't reach past Southport. Now it goes all the way into Avondale. Similar stories can be told about the whole North Side. The near west and near south side redevelopments hadn't started and south of about Harrison on the lakefront was a horrible slum until you got to Hyde Park.

You may very well be correct about the north and near-south sides, I'm not nearly as familiar with them. But the far south and southwest sides of the city? Marquette Park, for instance, was once a very safe area, from Holy Cross Hospital all the way to the city borders, containing thousands of decent-paying factory jobs that provided an economic engine for the residents. Chicago Lawn as well. Today? Not so much. And, in 1980, was the city talking about bankruptcy? If so, I never heard about it, that was a New York City thing.

There was a story today in the "Patch" newspapers that talked about "Rich Flight" occurring in downtown, with residents moving to north and north-western suburbs in droves - the writers were trying to contrast it to the "White Flight" of the 1960's and '70's. Whether that becomes a real trend, or becomes permanent remains to be seen, I guess, but it's definitely something that should cause concern in City Hall.

[oldhousegirl]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

I think it's too late for that, due to the almost insurmountable debt requiring ever-higher levels of taxation, the inept politicians who pander to criminals, the horrible traffic, the lousy housing appreciation in many areas (caused mostly by the ever-higher real estate taxes), big cities now being seen as Covid-engines, BLM pretty much running the city at this point, the "Defund the Police" idiots being taken WAY too seriously, etc., etc.. Just not nearly as much to love as there used to be, the pendulum has swung too far to the dark side, too many minuses and not enough pluses to consider moving here, at least in 2020. Now, if Marty McFly could return us all back to 1980? Who wants to go to ChicagoFest tonight, Woo, Hoo!

Perhaps the city/state should realllly consider and enact pension reform. For real this time.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by oldhousegirl

Perhaps the city/state should reallly consider and enact pension reform. For real this time.

Real pension reform happened in 2011 when they brought on "Tier 2", but it didn't do anything to undo the damage of years of overpromising and underfunding the "Tier 1" pensions.

No sense going down that road again, Rauner tried it and was completely rejected, first by the Legislators, and then by the voters. Next time, absent a federal bailout (which is silly, because where do you think the Fed gets its money from?), it will be done by a judge, once congress gives states the right to reorganize their debts. And if a judge does it, the bondholders are going to get a real haircut as well as the pensioners.

If they put Starved Rock on the block, I wouldn't mind owning a piece of the waterfall, except I probably couldn't afford the real estate taxes.