Foundations of pre-WWII housing (Chicago, Evanston: 2015, new home, transfer)

[WRnative]

Do pre-World War II homes in wealthy suburbs of Chicago generally have poured concrete foundations/basement walls or brick masonry foundations? If both, which type of foundation has proven superior?

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Do pre-World War II homes in wealthy suburbs of Chicago generally have poured concrete foundations/basement walls or brick masonry foundations? If both, which type of foundation has proven superior?

Both were used and many homes have a combination of the two. The brick foundations tend to have more frequent issues with efflorescence. But, I don't know that there is a truly superior choice. Concrete is the new standard because it's more economical.

[UMN2BE]

Poured concrete is superior. My parents place built in the 60s has a concrete block foundation.

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by UMN2BE

Poured concrete is superior. My parents place built in the 60s has a concrete block foundation.

No, I think this is more a matter of debate like plaster vs. drywall. I don't see how you could say that concrete is definitively superior. There is no epidemic of problems with brick foundations.

[UMN2BE]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

No, I think this is more a matter of debate like plaster vs. drywall. I don't see how you could say that concrete is definitively superior. There is no epidemic of problems with brick foundations.

No it's really not. Poured concrete is stronger and because it is one continuous unit it is far less susceptible to water intrusion. While concrete is expensive a poured foundation requires far fewer man-hours of labor to construct. Obviously block foundations aren't collapsing left and right, just like you don't see homes with aluminum or knob/tube wiring going up in flames daily, but the industry has clearly moved on.

There's a reason why all new homes for the last 30-40 years have had poured foundations.

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by UMN2BE

No it's really not. Poured concrete is stronger and because it is one continuous unit it is far less susceptible to water intrusion. While concrete is expensive a poured foundation requires far fewer man-hours of labor to construct. Obviously block foundations aren't collapsing left and right, just like you don't see homes with aluminum or knob/tube wiring going up in flames daily, but the industry has clearly moved on.

There's a reason why all new homes for the last 30-40 years have had poured foundations.

My assumption is that the OP is inquiring as to whether or not this is something to consider when purchasing a home. I can't think of a significant reason, and I have never seen a brick foundation on the North Shore with water intrusion.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

My sister had basement walls laid with mortared natural rock in her building in southern WI, it was built in the Civil war era and still looks pretty good today. It was in a commercial building - I don't know how thick the walls were, and whether it was ever tuckpointed form the inside, but I wouldn't be afraid of mortared walls myself after seeing hers. Lots of hundred-year old barns were constructed the same way.

But a friend had a home in Oak Lawn with brick walls, and the basement was fairly dank and had a lot of leaks through the walls. Personally, I'm not a big fan of buried common brick due to effervescence and spalling. On the other hand, I have poured concrete walls in my half-basement, and get seepage through multiple cracks in the concrete (I think it's almost unavoidable) when the sanitary line fills up because so many dimwits have their sump pumps tied into the sanitary lines in the southwest suburbs (the city of Chicago has a "combined sewer system" on purpose, unfortunately for them).

Semi-deep footings are necessary due to the frost depth. Soil that "expands" (like the blue clay found within northern IL) is less desirable than aggregate soils (those containing sand and gravel, that don't expand and promote water drainage). If the OP is looking to buy, a competent inspector should be able to advise whether there are any real problems with the foundation walls. Drain tile and a sump pump is preferable (at least for me) to keep the footings de-watered.

Basements on newer homes (if the builder has any sense) have buried walls that are waterproofed, and some kind of foam insulation made for the purpose installed on the exterior of the basement walls to slow heat transfer and inhibit water infiltration. I really like having a basement, it provides much easier access to the utilities, allows for laundry and heating equipment to be moved off the main floor, gives some storm shelter safety, and provides a huge amount of storage area in a home, it's very cheap square footage at a much lower cost than building additional main floor area. The only real downside is the necessity of stairs and typically having the main floor higher off the ground than a "true" ranch (which also conveniently provides some safety from floodwaters).

Buyer beware OP, however, some neighborhoods in and around Chicagoland are prone to semi-frequent flooding of their basements, and that's a real pain. I'm on "higher ground" (only a foot or two) than the lowest areas of my neighborhood, but it makes a huge difference in a storm. Check newspaper reports from May of 2020, 2012 and 2013, 2015, I believe, and for you old-timers, especially (July?) of 1976, the southwest suburbs almost floated away that summer. The metro has made huge investments in TARP (Tunnel and Reservoir Project) that has greatly reduced damage from smaller storms, stopped a lot of sanitary discharge out of Lake Michigan, but relief from the larger storms won't be realized until all of the huge reservoir projects are completed. I'm not sure if even that will protect a whole lot of people when Ma Nature decides to open the floodgates, as she does every few years around Chicago. The MWRD website is an interesting place for those who wonder where the rainwater goes around Chicago.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/5/...imes-editorial

[Hiruko]

West Winnetka turns into a freaking lagoon every several years. It's to the point where I can't believe that people purchase homes over there. I'm talking flooding like taking a canoe and rowing down the street.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

My assumption is that the OP is inquiring as to whether or not this is something to consider when purchasing a home. I can't think of a significant reason, and I have never seen a brick foundation on the North Shore with water intrusion.

This is what I was looking for! Thanks!!! Does everybody agree with this statement (it appears not)?

However, a Chicago native suggested to me that the preponderance of pre-WWII homes in more expensive Chicago neighborhoods had poured concrete foundations and I found that hard to believe given the more recent adoption of poured concrete foundations nationally. I was surprised when I did a little research that poured concrete foundations even were used in the first half of the 20th century, so I was just curious how extensively poured concrete foundations were used in pre-WWII Chicago housing and how well they had held up 70-120 years later.

How common are poured concrete foundations in pre-WWII homes in Chicagoland?

I've never seen poured concrete foundations in the older mansions and upscale pre-WWII housing in Cleveland suburbs such as Shaker Heights. Brick blocks, not concrete blocks, are all that I've ever seen.

Thanks for all of the replies!!!

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by WRnative

This is what I was looking for! Thanks!!! Does everybody agree with this statement (it appears not)?

However, a Chicago native suggested to me that ALL of the pre-WWII homes in more expensive Chicago neighborhoods had poured concrete foundations and I found that hard to believe given the more recent adoption of poured concrete foundations nationally. I was surprised when I did a little research that poured concrete foundations were used in the first half of the 20th century, so I was just curious.

How common are poured concrete foundations in pre-WWII homes in Chicagoland?

I've never seen poured concrete foundations in the older mansions and upscale pre-WWII housing in Cleveland suburbs such as Shaker Heights.

Thanks for all of the replies!!!

Coincidentally, I'm from the North Shore, but my mother's family is from Shaker Heights and Cleveland's eastern 'burbs. The only home that they had with a concrete foundation in Shaker was one they built in the '70s on South Woodland. My parents' Evanston home, built in the 1910s, has a mix of brick and concrete. I've been in many multi-million dollar homes on the North Shore and can't recall seeing an exposed concrete foundation in any home that was over 80 years old. There aren't a lot of posters on this forum that are familiar with old homes or from the North Shore/Gold Coast/Kenwood/Hyde Park areas where there are many older mansions, I should add.