Murderer gets probation (Chicago, Marine: moving, radio, murders)

[allen2323]

The old guy should have gotten the maximum sentence. He brings a gun outside of his home, gets in a heated argument, and ends up shooting a 23 year old. Everything else is hear say about what a victim said or did to provoke the deadly incident. The victim is no longer here to confirm or deny what lead up to the shooting himself. I know the killer was black himself, but the fact that he killed a young black man got him some sympathy with the prosecuters, judge, and some of the general public that he just did not deserve in this situation. That's why if you are not a police officer you shouldn't be outside in the neighborhood with a gun. This whole story about he fears for his life so he carries a gun when he is outside in University park just further shows how reckless this guys actions were that day. There hasn't been a murder in University Park in atleast a decade if ever. This murder was the first one. Way to go Will county for sending a good message to the public and making the residents of university park feel safer.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo

No, what is funny about this whole story is that if the old man had been white and the 23 year old victim had been a minority kid with baggy pants and a side ways baseball cap with a pitbull, people would be calling him a "hero".

Au contraire. There would probably be riots in the street and people (including in this forum) calling the old white guy "racist."

[urza216]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

Hello. People already do assume the cop is lying. They do in Chicago at least.

You KNOW it's bad when the average middle-class middle-aged white person doesn't trust the local police.

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

Au contraire. There would probably be riots in the street and people (including in this forum) calling the old white guy "racist."

For what? Tony, are you worried that if you ever killed a black man in self-defense, you would be pegged as a racist? This makes me wonder if there are other more everyday situations where you're afraid of being being pegged as a racist.

You should try this. It works wonders....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8

[urza216]

Originally Posted by allen2323

There hasn't been a murder in University Park in at least a decade if ever.

When talking about the lack of murder, it should be noted that there are only about 6,600 people living in University Park.

You're right though. Crime in most parts of University Park isn't bad at all. Although if I ever hear about someone getting shot dead outside that big old apartment building down the street from Dimitri's, I'm not gonna be too shocked about it.

[beadsmart]

I'm shocked to see how many support probation as the consequence for MURDER! And how many instantly decide the victim somehow deserved to die because he was young and an unwed, unemployed father. At least he was living with his kids mama and following some bit of law walking his dog on a leash. The murderer testified the victim punched him. The victim never got the chance to tell his side. Getting punched doesn't give you the right to pull a gun and shoot to kill. The murderer was ex military and knew his aim would kill. The murderer followed the victim instead of calling the police to report his beef. He called his law enforcement and military buddies for help in claiming self defense. My guess is the murderer was a crabby old sob who thought he was above the law with his connections and now he proved it! Instead of justifying murder you should all be asking how his connections let him get away with it. COLD BLOODED MURDER deserves prison time plain & simple

[todd00]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

Wow, kill a man and get probabtion. Kill a few mutts like Vick did and go to jail for 2 years.

I cant believe he got probation. This old fool obsessed with his lawn should do hard time. Just because he had no record, he gets probation?

But i also believe someone dog fighting, as that scum bag Vick was doing should have gotten far more than a 2 yr slap on the wrist. I guess animals don't matter to you, luckily some pple do care about their welfare and see the Vick case as a travesty of justice, just as this case is.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by beadsmart

...
COLD BLOODED MURDER deserves prison time plain & simple

I think that perhaps the man should have gotten more than probation, however what he did is a LONG way from being cold blooded murder. If it had been cold-blooded murder, he would have been convicted on First Degree Murder. But he wasn't - he was convicted of Second Degree Murder, which in Illinois is basically defined as a crime of passion. In other words, it was legally proved that he was strongly provoked and that because of the provocation he though he was acting in a justified manner at the time but that legally he was not actually justified.

I think he should have gotten at least some prison time if for no other reason than as a deterrent to other older people who might think they could "get away with" murder if they get harassed, but I certainly don't think he should have gotten 20 years. A four-year sentence for a 30-year-old is probably a little under 10% of his remaining life. For a healthy 69-year-old, he might live another 10 years, so a one-year sentence would be proportionaly appropriate.

Should people be given license to shoot neighbors they have a disagreement with? No. But the law should make it equally clear that those who assault people on their own lawn are giving up some of their own legal protections. The term "outlaw" comes from a time in old English and Scandinavian society where someone who committed certain crimes was declared "outside of the law." When that happened, you weren't executed, but the law offered you no protection from others, and no means of recourse if you were cheated, etc. If you were declared to be "outlaw," you could be killed by anyone without that person suffering any consequences. I mention this because I think assaulting a man on his own property - essentially within his own home - SHOULD run the risk of causing you to be an outlaw, as being secure in your own home is something that is a fundamental responsibility of the Law to protect and preserve - almost, but not quite, as important as preserving life itself. Therefore it was appropriate for the shooter to be convicted, but it was also appropriate for him to get less than the maximum sentence.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

Hello. People already do assume the cop is lying. They do in Chicago at least.

Originally Posted by urza216

You KNOW it's bad when the average middle-class middle-aged white person doesn't trust the local police.

Last time I looked, most of Chicago is not middle class/middle aged white people.

[Savoir Faire]

Originally Posted by emathias

I think that perhaps the man should have gotten more than probation, however what he did is a LONG way from being cold blooded murder. If it had been cold-blooded murder, he would have been convicted on First Degree Murder. But he wasn't - he was convicted of Second Degree Murder,

Who punched who first is moot as this man was convicted of murder. It seems like some people are ok with people convicted of murder getting off with a warning, as long as the murderer is an ex marine. Odd that sometimes these are the same people that complain that our laws are too lenient on criminals.

[chicagojlo]

Originally Posted by emathias

But the law should make it equally clear that those who assault people on their own lawn are giving up some of their own legal protections.

I mention this because I think assaulting a man on his own property - essentially within his own home - SHOULD run the risk of causing you to be an outlaw, as being secure in your own home is something that is a fundamental responsibility of the Law to protect and preserve - almost, but not quite, as important as preserving life itself. Therefore it was appropriate for the shooter to be convicted, but it was also appropriate for him to get less than the maximum sentence.

The victim's dog peed on the guy's lawn. The old guy followed him down the street and killed him. At no point did the victim attack the old guy on his lawn or any other part of his property.