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OK. Well "Indy is about the same." Well Indy was #3 on the list of best cities for blacks, so I guess that makes Chicago #3 in your opinion. And once again, integration or lack of integration is different from racism. What makes you think blacks want to live in white neighborhoods or even latino neighborhoods for that matter. The only reason some areas in Indy are more integrated are because Indy has more poor white people than Chicago so they tend to live in areas with more minorities. There aren't as many areas that are too expensive to buy into like Chicago. So once again, there is probably a explanation besides the default answer of racism.
Indy has more poor white people. Errrr, yeah, no it doesn't. A city of 2.7 million or so will have more of everything than a city of 830k. Just the way it goes. Outside of Center township, the next most integrated township in Indy is Washington and sans few blocks in and around its southern border with Center township, it's not poor at all. The same with Pike, Lawrence and Warren. Not even all of center is poor. There's a very solid middle class within the old city limits. One of the biggest differences is you can go on almost any street and find a white, black and hispanic living on the same block minus decatur and franklin townships. You live downtown and you'll find everyone on the same block including Indian and Asian. The entire 94 corridor from Gary to Milwaukee generally is an area of you know who lives in what area, it's very segregated. Often times, when a black person makes it into the middle class in Chicago, off to the suburbs they go. While it really has nothing to do with the city per se outside of say poor performing school systems and crime, urban life for blacks and whites tend to be viewed differently and for a nice chunk of urban life it is different for both groups. Indy, blacks move out of center township into one of the outer townships but still choosing to live in the city as compared to moving to one of the donut counties or one of the excludeds'. Again, they move for the same reasons as chicagoians. CPS is one of the if not the worst school district in the US. IPS is right on its heels giving it a excellent run for its money for how bad a school system can be. Both have excellent schools within the district BUT waiting lists and the like, make them some of the most competitive to get into leaving "everything" else.
With that said, you are basing your argument on blacks just being poor when you make the assumption that since there are more poor white people in Indy then the neighborhoods are more integrated. You've basically associated black=poor. In general, black people do not really care if they live around any other ethnicity. We just don't normally want to be the only ones there. We want safe neighborhoods, good schools, good neighbors just like everyone else and believe it or not a lot of us prefer diverse neighborhoods. The one thing history has shown is when too many of us move in, whites move further away.
Indy has more poor white people. Errrr, yeah, no it doesn't. A city of 2.7 million or so will have more of everything than a city of 830k. Just the way it goes. Outside of Center township, the next most integrated township in Indy is Washington and sans few blocks in and around its southern border with Center township, it's not poor at all. The same with Pike, Lawrence and Warren. Not even all of center is poor. There's a very solid middle class within the old city limits. One of the biggest differences is you can go on almost any street and find a white, black and hispanic living on the same block minus decatur and franklin townships. You live downtown and you'll find everyone on the same block including Indian and Asian. The entire 94 corridor from Gary to Milwaukee generally is an area of you know who lives in what area, it's very segregated. Often times, when a black person makes it into the middle class in Chicago, off to the suburbs they go. While it really has nothing to do with the city per se outside of say poor performing school systems and crime, urban life for blacks and whites tend to be viewed differently and for a nice chunk of urban life it is different for both groups. Indy, blacks move out of center township into one of the outer townships but still choosing to live in the city as compared to moving to one of the donut counties or one of the excludeds'. Again, they move for the same reasons as chicagoians. CPS is one of the if not the worst school district in the US. IPS is right on its heels giving it a excellent run for its money for how bad a school system can be. Both have excellent schools within the district BUT waiting lists and the like, make them some of the most competitive to get into leaving "everything" else.
With that said, you are basing your argument on blacks just being poor when you make the assumption that since there are more poor white people in Indy then the neighborhoods are more integrated. You've basically associated black=poor. In general, black people do not really care if they live around any other ethnicity. We just don't normally want to be the only ones there. We want safe neighborhoods, good schools, good neighbors just like everyone else and believe it or not a lot of us prefer diverse neighborhoods. The one thing history has shown is when too many of us move in, whites move further away.
Geeze. Do I have to explain every little detail for some of you. Can't we use common sense sometimes. By saying "Indy has moor poor white people", I meant in proportion to the population. A percentage or proportion if you will. DO you know what a percentage is? By your logic, Chicago is more integrated because there are more minorities number wise that live close to white people. ANd then you could say Chicago is more and less of everything, which isn't possible, simple because of their numbers. YOu could say Chicago is more racist because number wise there are more racist people, while at the same time there are less racist people number wise. Get it???? Use common sense.
Geeze. Do I have to explain every little detail for some of you. Can't we use common sense sometimes. By saying "Indy has moor poor white people", I meant in proportion to the population. A percentage or proportion if you will. DO you know what a percentage is? By your logic, Chicago is more integrated because there are more minorities number wise that live close to white people. ANd then you could say Chicago is more and less of everything, which isn't possible, simple because of their numbers. YOu could say Chicago is more racist because number wise there are more racist people, while at the same time there are less racist people number wise. Get it???? Use common sense.
Save that straw man BS you just tried to push on me. If you meant percentage wise, you would have said it. Complete statements never take on a connotative context (since you want to go there) but nice duck and dodge of what I actually said.
Indy has more poor white people. Errrr, yeah, no it doesn't. A city of 2.7 million or so will have more of everything than a city of 830k. Just the way it goes. Outside of Center township, the next most integrated township in Indy is Washington and sans few blocks in and around its southern border with Center township, it's not poor at all. The same with Pike, Lawrence and Warren. Not even all of center is poor. There's a very solid middle class within the old city limits. One of the biggest differences is you can go on almost any street and find a white, black and hispanic living on the same block minus decatur and franklin townships. You live downtown and you'll find everyone on the same block including Indian and Asian. The entire 94 corridor from Gary to Milwaukee generally is an area of you know who lives in what area, it's very segregated. Often times, when a black person makes it into the middle class in Chicago, off to the suburbs they go. While it really has nothing to do with the city per se outside of say poor performing school systems and crime, urban life for blacks and whites tend to be viewed differently and for a nice chunk of urban life it is different for both groups. Indy, blacks move out of center township into one of the outer townships but still choosing to live in the city as compared to moving to one of the donut counties or one of the excludeds'. Again, they move for the same reasons as chicagoians. CPS is one of the if not the worst school district in the US. IPS is right on its heels giving it a excellent run for its money for how bad a school system can be. Both have excellent schools within the district BUT waiting lists and the like, make them some of the most competitive to get into leaving "everything" else.
With that said, you are basing your argument on blacks just being poor when you make the assumption that since there are more poor white people in Indy then the neighborhoods are more integrated. You've basically associated black=poor. In general, black people do not really care if they live around any other ethnicity. We just don't normally want to be the only ones there. We want safe neighborhoods, good schools, good neighbors just like everyone else and believe it or not a lot of us prefer diverse neighborhoods. The one thing history has shown is when too many of us move in, whites move further away.
I have family in Indianapolis who don't have the racism stories that the average Black person in Chicago has.
Indianapolis doesn't seem anywhere near as segregated. There also seems to be a decent middle class there.
I agree 100% with what you've written.
Our CD friends are looking at where the kkk started and offering that as an argument of other places being worse than Chicago. Me as a Black American who has experience living in some of these states can't take them serious enough to respond at times.
As long as we have people thinking there is nothing wrong with segregation high unemployment and don't want to listen to others experience, we are going to have issues.
Have bigger cities like Chicago Philadelphia and Boston loss their appeal to Black professionals. I've heard nasty stories about Boston and Philly too.
Save that straw man BS you just tried to push on me. If you meant percentage wise, you would have said it. Complete statements never take on a connotative context (since you want to go there) but nice duck and dodge of what I actually said.
It is clear where he/she stands in life with facts and knowledge about the subject they want to be taken serious about.
Grandma always said you can't reason with foolery.
I have family in Indianapolis who don't have the racism stories that the average Black person in Chicago has.
Indianapolis doesn't seem anywhere near as segregated. There also seems to be a decent middle class there.
I agree 100% with what you've written.
Our CD friends are looking at where the kkk started and offering that as an argument of other places being worse than Chicago. Me as a Black American who has experience living in some of these states can't take them serious enough to respond at times.
As long as we have people thinking there is nothing wrong with segregation high unemployment and don't want to listen to others experience, we are going to have issues.
Have bigger cities like Chicago Philadelphia and Boston loss their appeal to Black professionals. I've heard nasty stories about Boston and Philly too.
All good points. People might be forgetting that the KKK was strongest in places where African-Americans were achieving some degree of success and were therefore perceived as a threat. Besides Indiana it was also quite strong in Detroit, for example. There was less of a "need" (from their racist perspective) for the Klan in places where Black people stayed in the roles that white supremacists wanted them in.
The KKK didn't start in Indiana, by the way, nor did it have its greatest membership there. It did reach its highest level of political influence (the governor's office) there, though.
Save that straw man BS you just tried to push on me. If you meant percentage wise, you would have said it. Complete statements never take on a connotative context (since you want to go there) but nice duck and dodge of what I actually said.
Well I meant percentage/proportion wise. Any comparison has to be percentage wise because there is more of everything in Chicago because of its size. But since you apparently believed that, and using what you said, Chicago is MORE integrated than Indy because it has more people, and therefore more white people number wise that live close to blacks and Hispanics. There are also MORE blacks with high paying jobs and MORE black middle class. That implies less discrimination since it made sense to you to go by numbers and not percentage. I think you knew what I meant, but just wanted to try to make an argument or be a pain in the a$$
And Chicago's population is only 3 times larger than Indy. I wouldn't be surprised if Indy still had more poor white people than Chicago.
And I didn't associate black with poor. Statistically black neighborhoods are poorer than the average. Statistics associated it.
All good points. People might be forgetting that the KKK was strongest in places where African-Americans were achieving some degree of success and were therefore perceived as a threat. Besides Indiana it was also quite strong in Detroit, for example. There was less of a "need" (from their racist perspective) for the Klan in places where Black people stayed in the roles that white supremacists wanted them in.
The KKK didn't start in Indiana, by the way, nor did it have its greatest membership there. It did reach its highest level of political influence (the governor's office) there, though.
I have family in Indianapolis who don't have the racism stories that the average Black person in Chicago has.
Indianapolis doesn't seem anywhere near as segregated. There also seems to be a decent middle class there.
I agree 100% with what you've written.
Our CD friends are looking at where the kkk started and offering that as an argument of other places being worse than Chicago. Me as a Black American who has experience living in some of these states can't take them serious enough to respond at times.
As long as we have people thinking there is nothing wrong with segregation high unemployment and don't want to listen to others experience, we are going to have issues.
Have bigger cities like Chicago Philadelphia and Boston loss their appeal to Black professionals. I've heard nasty stories about Boston and Philly too.
Indianapolis has its problems just like anywhere else. Usually from my experience, the trash talk comes from those in the donut counties or they hide behind the computer screen and yap their venom. Whites living in the city are more moderate as they have black and hispanic neighbors who are hard working decent people, keep their lawns mowed, etc. and every group has bad apples. As an example,
Uptown is just over 50% white and the rest being everything else so one of the true diversified areas of the city. Now this isn't scientific by any means but if you were to poll the people living there, the venom esp. with regards to blacks and hispanics would be considerably lower than what those opinions would be coming from a strictly or mostly white area sans 90% white. You will find a more moderate tone and greater acceptance as a whole from everyone with regards to everyone else not like them. It's not Edgewood Park or Sauganash so perceptions will be different.
I will preface by saying I have never been to Indianapolis and have nothing good nor bad to say about it.
But it does seem to have played a very significant role in the rebirth of the Klan movement.
History of Indianapolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A darker period of Indianapolis history began with the rise of the second Ku Klux Klan movement in the United States. The Indiana chapter of the Klan was founded in 1920 and quickly became the most powerful Klan organization in the United States. In 1922, D. C. Stephenson was appointed the Klan Grand Dragon of Indiana and 22 other states; he promptly moved the Indiana Klan's headquarters to Indianapolis, which was already coming under the Klan's influence. The Klan became the most powerful political and social organization in the city during the period from 1921 through 1928.
I find it astounding this kind of thing was happening in broad daylight in a major city:
I don't think that history has anything to do with Chicago per se, and it certainly does not let us off the hook for our own racism.
It is worth pointing out that the Klan apparently did have a pretty large organization here, it seems like they were targeting large metropolitan areas in general.
In the 1920s, when the Ku Klux Klan had more than two million members nationwide and was at the peak of its power and influence, Chicago had the largest membership (50,000) of any metropolitan region in the United States. At the time, the “Invisible Empire” was known for anti-Catholicism as much as for white supremacy and anti-Semitism, and Chicago had an abundance of all three targets.
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