CPS strike? (Chicago: job market, school district, teacher salaries)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by eevee

I don't care what sort of situation a kid came from, a child isn't hopeless until others give up on them. She's not working with preteens here, her oldest kids are 2nd graders, youngest are in kindergarten. Kind of early to put the "hopeless" label on them.

OK, well, mentioning these are 2nd graders would indeed make that a different story - I completely agree that we shouldn't give up on kids and everyone can be reached.

But there are also definitely 6+ year olds who have decided that they do not want to take school seriously, and more importantly, who disrupt classrooms for the other kids who are serious.

To make this current/topical, one of the issues not getting much attention is class size, and the bigger the class, the easier it is for just one or two kids to totally destroy a learning atmosphere.

Lowering student-to-teacher ratios is the only sure-fire to improve student performance. And it means hiring more teachers, there's no magic bullet to get around that fact.

My kid's kindergarten teacher last year was amazing, but she had 26 kids, which is insane.

I am 100% in support of the teachers, even though I think Karen Lewis comes off terribly in the media and the CTU would be better served finding public relations alternatives.

[MI_OH]

Originally Posted by dewthedru

i don't know much about the numbers...but when i see people saying the teachers deserve respect and a pay raise i wonder if they realize that the city is BROKE!

The city isn't broke. Rahm is a big supporter of TIF subsidies, which are basically tax subsidies for downtown development. He just announced a hugely expensive downtown park, 100% paid for by city taxpayers. He's funneled big bucks to all kinds of downtown projects.

The city tells the public "sorry, we're broke, teachers need to sacrifice" and then funnels money to subsidize downtown developments. Rahm is essentially full of crap.

[dewthedru]

Originally Posted by MI_OH

The city isn't broke. Rahm is a big supporter of TIF subsidies, which are basically tax subsidies for downtown development. He just announced a hugely expensive downtown park, 100% paid for by city taxpayers. He's funneled big bucks to all kinds of downtown projects.

The city tells the public "sorry, we're broke, teachers need to sacrifice" and then funnels money to subsidize downtown developments. Rahm is essentially full of crap.

the city isn't broke?????? running up the credit cards on dumb purchases doesn't mean you're not broke.

[cubssoxfan]

Overheard a friend's wife who teaches at CPS discussing the issues. Her take was the raise offered did not correspond to the length of the day. She also mentioned that with the longer day she did not have any paid planning time in her schedule, meaning she now gets to do it at home for free. Her take is increase the salary or hire more people to add the planning periods. She felt that what they contribute to health insurance was very low and that there could be give and take. Increase the pay but ask for greater contributions towards health insurance. Wish I had time to talk to her more and get first person account.

[MI_OH]

Originally Posted by dewthedru

the city isn't broke?????? running up the credit cards on dumb purchases doesn't mean you're not broke.

If the city agrees to cut the stupid frills (sending 50 cops to Democrat Convention, spending $70 million to renovate a perfectly nice downtown park, using over $200 million in TIF subsidies to benefit Rahm's buddies), then I'll believe that Chicago is broke.

The reality is that Chicago has plenty of money, but spends it on stupid stuff.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by dewthedru

i don't know much about the numbers...but when i see people saying the teachers deserve respect and a pay raise i wonder if they realize that the city is BROKE! they're still going to get a guaranteed raise, something that few of us can hope for. plus, the vehemence against a merit-based pay system is hilarious. doesn't everyone but public servants and union employees operate on a merit-based pay system?

The problem with merit pay in teaching is that it is almost impossible to implement. Tying teacher pay to test scores is NOT the best way to determine merit.

In countries like Finland where the emphasis is OFF testing, the kids actually outdo ours on all of the international tests.

Note too, that a teacher who has the lowest scoring group, but manages to get them making progress (sometimes a good teacher can get kids to make 2 years of progress in one, but the kids may still be below their grade level), that teacher should be rewarded, but s/he won't be because the kids still test poorly.

These plans just don't work. Our kids are not widgets. We must deal with too many factors. In manufacturing, if your raw materials are poor, you get to send them back. Teachers, especially in the public schools cannot do this.

Educational Leadership:The Effective Educator:Merit Pay Misfires

Factors Beyond Teachers' Control
When asked to take on a merit-pay system, teachers typically point to the fact that they have no control over who is assigned to their classes. Every veteran teacher knows that groups of students will vary in their ability and motivation from year to year. Each class presents its own set of challenges. And this variation exists across schools and districts.
Other professions, such as law, engineering, or accounting, operate in a different context. Professionals in these fields usually choose to work with a specific client, and they define the range of possible outcomes before they engage in the work. If a lawyer wins a big slip-and-fall case, the firm makes more money and bonuses follow. In professional sports, the more the team wins, the more money it makes; performance bonuses are linked to things that put more paying fans in the seats. Merit-pay systems in contexts like these are clear, easy to understand, and easy to administer.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by nana053

These plans just don't work. Our kids are not widgets. We must deal with too many factors. In manufacturing, if your raw materials are poor, you get to send them back. Teachers, especially in the public schools cannot do this.

Educational Leadership:The Effective Educator:Merit Pay Misfires

Very good point - I have to confess I haven't paid much attention to this specific topic, is there any middle ground whatsoever? Is this the main sticking point?

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Very good point - I have to confess I haven't paid much attention to this specific topic, is there any middle ground whatsoever? Is this the main sticking point?

I think there are ways for it to be implemented, you just cannot tie it to test scores only and expect to get results.

Here's one possible solution that has been proposed that I think might work. Also every new teacher needs to have a mentor to help them along. Mentors (master teachers) need to be paid extra and given some free time for collaboration with their mentees.

A Proposal on How To Implement Merit Pay for Teachers « Education Reform and Innovation

The principal, department chair, and a peer teacher would review each teacher based on the following criteria:
• 40% – Observations of teaching
• 20% – Student test results
• 25% – Advising students and extracurricular activities (evaluated based on parent & student surveys)
• 15% – committee work and school wide initiatives.
All teachers would be observed three times a year. Each observation would include three observers: a peer teacher, department chair or assistant principal and a principal. After each observation teachers receive written feedback.
A grid would describe excellence in teaching in each area of the observation and the appropriate score. The grid would set a range of reviews from Needs Improvement, Fair, Good, to Excellent.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by urza216

Was she talking about CPS? Do Chicago residents really come down to 167th to shop at Walmart after midnight? lol

Much of the South Side is a food desert. That Wal-Mart and a couple of others in the near burbs are probably the closest places to buy a wide variety of cheap groceries for much of that area, especially late at night, which is when many low-income shift workers have to shop.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Golden Camel

There is no provision in Illinois law for recall of any elected official other than the governor. Recall of the governor was added as a Constitutional Amendment in 2010.

Thanks.