How is Chicago one of the most segregated cities in the country? (Lincoln: versus, safe)

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Chicagoist123

Can you please refer to where I say that you are not open minded if you have a homogenous group of friends? I don't believe I ever said that.

All I was saying that people in those neighborhoods and many of them are transplants, tend to hangout in homogenous groups. Never said they weren't open minded. There is a difference. I have a prefernce for Latina women, but doesn't mean I not, open minded to all races.

Many of my coworkers are white (like 80%) and they live in LP or Lakeview. Their group of friends are all white. Does it mean they are not open minded? No. It just means that they hangout inhomogenous groups.

First of all, I never said you implied/said anything about me personally. The point is that you were talking about these areas and yes, it's true there's many people who hang out in homogeneous groups in these areas, but in the end it means almost jack **** to someone's open mindedness, which is what I got at before. You bring up these areas for transplant neighborhoods, which is true, and your implication before is that transplants are somehow less likely to hang out in diverse groups and tying it to these neighborhoods. I think this forum has this dangerous notion that EVERYONE who's a transplant in Chicago is from the midwest. Yes, there's a lot from the midwest, but I can't tell you how many of my friends are from NYC, Boston, LA, San Francisco, SE Asia, Europe, and the middle east, and yes there's a good amount of them who live in the neighborhoods you mentioned.


My point was exactly what you said - it means jack **** where you live. It doesn't have a bearing usually on how open or close minded you are because people choose to live in neighborhoods for many reasons. Some do it because it's an easy commute and has what they want, others do it because of the great variety of bars, restaurants, shops, etc.

[Chicagoist123]

Originally Posted by marothisu

First of all, I never said you implied/said anything about me personally. The point is that you were talking about these areas and yes, it's true there's many people who hang out in homogeneous groups in these areas, but in the end it means almost jack **** to someone's personal preference. My point was exactly what you said - it means jack **** where you live. It doesn't have a bearing usually on how open or close minded you are because people choose to live in neighborhoods for many reasons. Some do it because it's an easy commute and has what they want, others do it because of the great variety of bars, restaurants, shops, etc. In the end, it's dangerous to group anybody who lives in X neighborhood as something.

Have you been drinking? I never implied anything about you? You were the one talking about how I said certain people aren't open minded. All I said is point out to where I said. that.

You still don't get it. All I was saying that if you grew up in many parts of the cities, the chances of you having a more diverse group of friends is higher as opposed to other in other parts of the city that are homogenous and the transplants to those hoods tend to be as well.

Let me put it this way if you buy a house in Avondale, the chances that your interaction will be with a much more diverse group of people increases greatly as opposed to a place like Lincoln Park. If you live in Avondale chances are you are surrouned by white people, Polish immigrants, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and a sprinkle of some Filipinos. If you live in Lincoln Park chances are most of the people around you are white. I have lived in both, I know what I am talking about.

If you go to school in Avondale at Linne, your classmates will be white, mexican and Puerto Rican and then some. If you go to Lincoln park elementary they will mostly be white. That is all I am saying. That many parts of the cities create very intergrated pepole and other's do not.

I am not accusing anyone of anything just stating the facts.

[marothisu]

I got your point from the very beginning, and you completely missed mine.

Let me state it again, because it's extremely ****ing simple:
- Just because you are a transplant and choose to live in Lakeview, does not mean you are any less open minded than someone who grew up in say a half diverse area of Los Angeles. I am very well aware that actually growing up around a diverse crowd will most likely make you more open minded. That was NEVER in question and I never said anything about it. The point is that you are acting as if any old transplant to Chicago is just probably less open minded than someone who grew up there. You are over generalizing and stereotyping a massive amount of people. There is some truth to what you say, but that's really not the point. People usually don't choose to live in Lakeview, for example, because there's a bunch of white people around and they aren't open minded (yes there's closed minded people all over the city in every neighborhood). Their reasons for living in these areas usually has nothing to do with how racially open and closed minded they are. Usually for a transplant, especially one who makes a decent living, the option of living in a neighborhood with 500 bars and restaurants within walking distance outweighs a diverse neighborhood with 50 bars and restaurants.

There are a lot of great neighborhoods out there, but if you are a 23 year old college grad who wants to party all the time with their new found "richness" and can afford a $1200/month apartment with a bunch of other 23 year old college grads in the area where people from many other neighborhoods come to party, which neighborhood do you think the stereotypical one would pick? The neighborhood with 500 bars and restaurants. It really has nothing to do with them being open or close minded USUALLY.

[Chicagoist123]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I got your point from the very beginning, and you completely missed mine.

Let me state it again, because it's extremely ****ing simple:
- Just because you are a transplant and choose to live in Lakeview, does not mean you are any less open minded than someone who grew up in say a half diverse area of Los Angeles. I am very well aware that actually growing up around a diverse crowd will most likely make you more open minded. That was NEVER in question and I never said anything about it. The point is that you are acting as if any old transplant to Chicago is just probably less open minded than someone who grew up there. You are over generalizing and stereotyping a massive amount of people. There is some truth to what you say, but that's really not the point. People usually don't choose to live in Lakeview, for example, because there's a bunch of white people around and they aren't open minded (yes there's closed minded people all over the city whether you like it or not). Their reasons for living in these areas usually has nothing to do with how racially open and closed minded they are.

You have stated both fact and stereotype.

Ok that's right because I said ALL transplants do that.

If you got my point from the beginning then why do you feel the need to continue? If you got my point why was it necessary to respond?

Please now go away!

[marothisu]

Why do I feel the need to continue? Because you posted a sweeping generalization about people who live in various neighborhoods.

true but ask yourself, where do most transplants move when they move to Chicago. First places they look usually are the Loop, Near North Side, Lincoln Park or Lakeview.

The point is extremely moot in this discussion. There is a difference between "This neighborhood is statistically non diverse" and "I think the people of this neighborhood are not open minded on average." One is fact, the other is completely conjecture and you don't seem to 100% grasp that. Transplants choose to live in these neighborhoods because of the amenities (and convenience, and safety usually) provided to them by it, not usually (I'm sure it does happen sometimes) because they don't want anybody outside of their own kind around them much.

[Chicagoist123]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Why do I feel the need to continue? Because you posted a sweeping generalization about people who live in various neighborhoods.



The point is extremely moot in this discussion. There is a difference between "This neighborhood is statistically non diverse" and "I think the people of this neighborhood are not open minded." One is fact, the other is completely conjecture and you don't seem to grasp that.

Again where did say a specific group is not open minded?! Please point it out. I said, that people who grow up in more diverse and integrated neighborhoods tend to be more open minded. Never said that the other group wasn't either. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said!

Let's be honest here too. Where are most of the tranplants from? Other parts of the Midwest. And what to they tend to be? Mostly white. And where do they mostly move to? Usually places like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Near North Side, etc. but that doesn't mean they are not open minded. But anyway this is like arguing with a stubborn child. Don't have time for it, getting ready for work tomorrow.

Good night!

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Chicagoist123

Again where did say a specific group is not open minded?! Please point it out. I said, that people who grow up in more diverse and integrated neighborhoods tend to be more open minded. Never said that the other group wasn't either. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said!

I am going off an implication. I understand this is your experience, but in the end, what you said is an opinion of yours based off of experience. We have obviously had two different experiences with other transplants here:

Originally Posted by Chicagoist123

Also depends where you are from. Chicagoans (more specifically northside) that were born and raised here (city proper) usually do have diverse friends/relationships. It's usually transplants that don't.

Originally Posted by Chicagoist123

I have one friend from the suburbs, and his ENTIRE group of friends is white, cept for one Mexican.

Originally Posted by Chicagoist123

However, I have noticed that many people who grew up in the city have very diverse friends. It's more the surburban types and transplants that tend to be homogenous.

Let's be honest here too. Where are most of the tranplants from? Other parts of the Midwest. And what to they tend to be? Mostly white. And where do they mostly move to? Usually places like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Near North Side, etc. but that doesn't mean they are not open minded. But anyway this is like arguing with a stubborn child. Don't have time for it, getting ready for work tomorrow.

Yes, there are many transplants from the midwest, and there's many not from the midwest. Most of my transplant friends are not from the midwest. Actually most aren't even from the United States or North America for that fact. It's a mixed bag and there's both and definitely many mid westerners (which makes sense).

And we are agreeing on the same thing. That's exactly what I said in all my messages. Where you live doesn't have a bearing on how open or close minded you are. Neither does the fact that you are from the midwest, or wherever it may be in the world. I have had the privilege (and non privilege in some ways) of living in both big cities and small cities in the midwest. I remember making this kind of thought when I first went to school in a city of 50,000 people in Iowa coming from a mixed race family from NYC and LA (that is me). I specifically remember talking to my friend from Paris at school about that who had spent more time in the region than I had, and she actually got pissed and told me I had a lot to learn. In the end she was definitely correct. I found that many people, yes, were not open minded, but I found a lot who were and it really changed my perceptions of the people. Still to this day, a few of the most open minded people I have ever met anywhere in the world happened to be from small towns in Iowa and Nebraska. I'm not saying it's the norm, but I learned from my experiences not to stereotype a midwesterner's open mindedness like I had been doing my whole life up until that point.

[EJ3791]

I'm inclined to agree with Chicagoist on this, at least with respect to LP and LV. When I lived in LP, it seemed that most of the Midwestern transplants hung out with each other. I don't think they were closed-minded, it was just that they shared similar circumstances and experiences.

[stephei2000]

Originally Posted by Chicagoist123

Also depends where you are from. Chicagoans (more specifically northside) that were born and raised here (city proper) usually do have diverse friends/relationships. It's usually transplants that don't.

For example: One of my best friends is Vietnamese, the other white, the other Mexican, another one white, another one Puerto Rican, another one Filipino, another Mexican, a Brazilian, a Jew, a Puerto Rican Jew, a Cuban Jew, and another white. We are one big group of diverse friends. My Vietnemes friend is currently dating a Mexican chick, before that he was dating a white chick, before that he was dating a Filipino chick.

I have one friend from the suburbs, and his ENTIRE group of friends is white, cept for one Mexican.

My sister (also raised in the city) is marrying a black guy, and pretty much their entire group of friends are primarily a mix of white, latino and black, and like an asian lol.

My father (latino) married a white woman. My father who lives in Portage Park, one side his neighbors are Jordanian, the other side Mexican, next to them they are Polish. My little sister plays with all those kids, so her friends are Jordanian, Polish, Mexican and also some Puerto Ricans, a Brazilian kid and Filipino kid.

I
My mother who lives in Avondale has Mexican neighbors, interracial marriage on the other side, a gay couple next to them (and another across the street!), Asian next to the Mexicans, Romanians next to the interracial couple, and next to them a white family. All there kids play together out in front. Everytime I go in the evening to visit my mom I always see the asian, white, latino and interracial kids playing out in front.

Those kids are raised in the city. That's the difference. Certainly the southside is not like that.
However, I have noticed that many people who grew up in the city have very diverse friends. It's more the surburban types and transplants that tend to be homogenous.

Trust me, if you grew up in Avondale, Logan Square, Irving Park, Portage Park, Albany Park, Mayfair, Edgewater, Uptown, Roger's Park, etc you more than likely have a very diverse group of friends.

Is it widespread across the city? no. but it is very much there, so let's not pretend like it doesn't exist. Many people here focus too much on Lakeview, Lincoln Park, the Southside, when there are plenty of intergrated and diverse neighborhoods throughout the rest of Chicago. Problem is many of you are in a bubble as well and don't see that.

I completely agree with this. I do notice natives and people in the non-transplant neighborhoods to have a mix of friends at times. It is amazing during the hoildays what Chicago is like on the northside. It feels like a multicultural city. I observed this during Thanksgiving. Most of the transplants when home, and I felt like I was in a different city.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by EJ3791

I'm inclined to agree with Chicagoist on this, at least with respect to LP and LV. When I lived in LP, it seemed that most of the Midwestern transplants hung out with each other. I don't think they were closed-minded, it was just that they shared similar circumstances and experiences.

I think Chicagoist is 100% correct.

It's not a question of open-mindedness.

It's a question of - no, an accident of - geography. Where one is born and raised. Growing up in Chicago (at least, in the pre-gentrified neighborhoods), you are just more likely to have been in diverse settings all along, and your friend circle will reflect that.

The suburbs are overwhelmingly white. That's just the way America developed with the rise of the automobile and cheap gas.

You can't really deny that most suburban people moving to Chicago gravitate to neighborhoods like Lincoln Park, Lake View, etc. It's not because they're inherently evil, it's that those neighborhoods have networks in place. That didn't happen overnight, it took decades.