Buying a house in Humboldt Park (Chicago, Lincoln: for sale, foreclosure, living in)

[Drover]

what is "HHDC?"

[Humboldt1]

Drover,

HHDC is hispanic housing development corporation.

They have a website at hhdchomes.com

Interesting site outlining current, past, and future developments.

They are developing the now vacant southeast corner of pulaski and north into 66 unit apartment building with retail on first floor. They are very similar to bickerdike but seem to focus more heavily on the hispanic community.

[Phl_Gd]

Drover,

Appreciate your response. A couple of points:
--> First, we do (my wife and I) do go to the "actual Humboldt Park" (West of Kedzie) several times a week to see our friends. Wanted to correct the reference you made several times. My point in my original post referenced investing/buying there. I would buy there if I was prepared to wait 5 or more years to see a decent return for my $$$.
--> Secondly, we must have lived in two different Chicagos because the West of Damen insinuation was very real 5 - 10 years ago. Talk to developers who built on Leavitt between Division and North. I am pretty familiar with this scenario so let's leave it at that.
--> Glad to hear that ChicagoCrime.org is working on improvements on coverage etc. My comparison to CLEARMap also asks to compare both tools. Anyone who does, immedieately sees that one has a much more intuitive and informative interface. As we personally, have noticed data missing on ChicagoCrime.Org from events that occured in our neighborhood. (My wife and I help facilitate the C.A.P.S program for our beat so we are familiar with the going-ons here)
--> Don't lose site of the original post that spawned this discussion. The couple asked, "My husband and I are looking to buy a house in Humboldt Park between the streets of Western and California and Chicago and Augusta..." You say what we've been talking about is the 'actual HP'. That is precisely my point, as a result of the tangent of discussing crime rates on primarily the West Side of the park, most responders have lost sight of the original question and bunched everthing together and perhaps not painting an accurate picture to the couple. Even the crime stats included in a post earlier covered such a wide swath (Ukrainian Village to West Humboldt) that it is almost impossible for said couple to get a clear picture. This led to the statment of other neighborhoods...running reports for a similar swath of blocks anywhere in the city will reveal the prevalence of crime everywhere.
--> Lastly, we are not trying to use crime occuring in other neighborhoods as justification/acceptance for crime in ours. That would be ignorant and if that was our perspective then we would just sit back and watch. No. For that reason, we know that we have to get involved and help out our neighbors and community alike because even one assault in our neighborhood is too much. The point of other neighborhoods was brought up because of the posters who culled crime stats as proof that the neighborhood was not safe. The point was that this is the city, crime does happen everywhere. As unacceptable as it is. Rates may be higher in some areas and hence the need to deterimine how you want to hedge your investments. No one in the city shold ever be lulled to a sense of security because they did not buy in a 'bad' neighborhood.

Bottomline: My advice to the couple is if you are looking to Rent or invest(own) for < 3 - 5 years, don't buy in the area you were asking about. If you want to invest for at least 5 years, get the most for your money, be on the fringe of a booming area, get huge(ok relatively huge (Thanks Drover!:P)) upside on your investment, then look exactly were you asked about.

Regards,
Phl_Gd

[Drover]

Yeah, there was some confusion about which HP we were talking about because there was another active thread on the topic when you kind of awoke this one from a coma; so I thought this was that other thread when I made that comment.

I still contend that the stigma against "west of Damen" was gone longer than 5 years ago; it was certainly past the "urban pioneers only" phase by then, even if not in full yuppie swing yet. I suppose we'll disagree.

Third, like I said, chicagocrime.org (now everyblock) references the exact same database as CLEAR_MAP. It used to be that there would be as long as a 3-week gap between when a crime happened and when it showed up on chicagocrime.org, but it would show up eventually. Furthermore, that reporting gap appears to have vanished with the conversion over to the "everyblock" format. As for which is more intuitive, that's up to the individual user. I found chicagocrime.org far more useful than CLEAR_MAP and I'm still assessing Everyblock's format though I have at least concluded that I don't like it as much as chicagocrime.org. But one thing I do appreciate about Everyblock is that the data goes back to the middle of 2007 and will soon go back to the end of 2005 as the older data stored at chicagocrime.org converted to the new format. That makes it a lot easier to assess long-term crime trends than CLEAR_MAP, which only allows searches two weeks at a time.

Finally, to assert that one will get a "huge upside" on their investment anywhere in this current market is cavalier, at best. The days of "huge upside" are gone for the foreseeable future. There may be other reasons to buy where the OP is looking, but I wouldn't so casually claim that there's a huge upside to be realized. That market is already tapped; this isn't 1999 any more.

[Phl_Gd]

Drover,
That's what I get for being a Johnny come lately to this post. Just wanted to clear the geography of the question Vs answers up.
You know you are probably right...5 - 10 years on the West of Damen stigma. We just know we experienced in as recently as 5 years ago. Perhaps not as widespread then.
Corrected the post about 'HUGE UPSIDE' I guess that is overstating out market today. Relatively speaking was implied.

Humboldt1,
You are correct, South of Division in the subject blocks is a bit more desirable because of the Section 8's, HHDC, Bickerdike and resistance to development where I live. We just chose this because we believe and have witnessed that it is inevitable and the higher ceiling (to us) existed here.

[Drover]

Can someone tell me what the issue is with Bickerdike? I've heard it mentioned a few times but don't really know why it's considered a problem area... ?

[Humboldt1]

Drover,

Bickerdike goes in and buys up vacant parcels and develops them with low-income housing. Essentially, this guarantees that gentrifying areas keep low-income people. When you drive or walk by these developments, they are essentially mini projects, complete with no loitering signs. It is not uncommon in my experience in Humboldt Park and West Town just east of the park, particularly between north and division to see gang and drug activity along the corners where these buildings are located.

While it is great that poor people can continue to live in these neighborhoods as the yuppies move in and buy their $400-500M condos complete with granite countertops and stainless steel appliances (overpriced in my opinion), they are targetted by those who have less. It is never a good idea to park your new bmw next to neighbors who rely upon gov't aid to get by.

Basically, groups like Bickerdike and HHDC and the like fight against gentrification to allow mixed-income housing in areas that are becoming more affluent, to allow the existing residents, often renters, to stay. You can pretty much tell the properties that are located next to these developments as the prices reflect the increase risks associated with living there.

[Drover]

OK, so I have to ask: how do they make money doing this? Or do they rely on grants for a good chunk of their operating revenue?

[Humboldt1]

Drover,

This comes straight off of Bickerdike's website:

Bickerdike Redevelopment Corporation is a member based, nonprofit community development corporation working for the redevelopment of communities on the northwest side of Chicago by and for the low and moderate-income people who live in these areas.
We enrich and protect the communities of West Town, Humboldt Park, Logan Square and Hermosa through housing development and preservation, economic empowerment, and leadership development and organizing.
We are deeply dedicated to preserving the ethnic and cultural character of our neighborhoods, while improving the economic conditions of the community. We carry out our mission by: providing quality affordable housing, struggling against gentrification and displacement, promoting economic development by creating and preserving jobs,and advocating for additional resources.
In all of our endeavors, we are committed to the principles of honesty, openness, democratic process, education, involvement and empowerment of community residents' self-worth, self-respect and pride.

So, tax money is subsidizing low-income development, in effect slowing down gentrification.

[leighland]

Originally Posted by Drover

There's a reason why even you won't go to the actual Humboldt Park.

I lived in Wicker Park from 1991 thru 2000 and saw the change. I used to go running in Humboldt Park, get Puerto Rican food from the vendors, attended the outdoor Mass during the Borican festival and watched the Softball games and the few Mexicans playing soccer on Sundays. I miss it in a lot of ways -Chicago is a great city and the only city I would want to live in. There are less cops in Humboldt compared to Lincoln but I ALWAYS felt safe there, alone, white 30 yo female yuppy, during the day. Love the Roses at the north part of the Park. Dammit, now I miss Humboldt Park.