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As a major financial and cultural center, New York offers a greater number of opportunities to people, as hard as it is to live there with the cost of living being so high. The only way Chicago could attract these large numbers of residents would be to provide more jobs and opportunities for people.
Cities usually grow for economic reasons. Take away economics and you have no city.
As a major financial and cultural center, New York offers a greater number of opportunities to people, as hard as it is to live there with the cost of living being so high. The only way Chicago could attract these large numbers of residents would be to provide more jobs and opportunities for people.
Cities usually grow for economic reasons. Take away economics and you have no city.
To a certain extent, growth in Texas and other SW states is due to much lower housing costs, which then develops a micro economy supporting that growth created from lower housing costs, which then creates additional job opportunites for further in-migration.
Chicago could tap in to that (on a much smaller level) if we removed some of our growth/development restrictions in areas where there is demand. There is an opportunity with the absurd land/housing costs of NYC/SF for a city like Chicago. Instead, housing units in most desirable Chicago neighborhoods are flat or going down, so while it may be cheaper than those two, its not as much as it could be, making the decision to move to Chicago vs other cities like Denver/Seattle/etc dependent on other factors (specific opportunities/weather/etc).
Arbitrary political boundaries do matter. If you are unhappy with the political leadership and/or climate in Chicago and Cook county, how is moving out to DuPage county going to help fix that? Honestly. How is moving away from a problem going to fix it? How is moving away to an area where you have no political say going to fix anything?
It seems, to me at least, like OP is advocating for a Detroit-esque situation.
I am not really advocating for ANY particular solution. I do think that the data presented gives a whole lot of people plenty of reasons to rethink where they might be living if they want to give their kids a shot at a better future.
Further, from what I know about how and why the "wheels falling off" of towns like Detroit it does seem like there are still a critical mass of folks that are committed enough to Chicago's nicer areas nearer the lake / north of the Lake that such a collapse is not imminent. Of course, the degree to which insiders continue to run things for their own selfish purposes as opposed to trying to more fairly spread out the bounty and burdens equally will determine how long they can stay in power...
The fact is even in the suburban area that surrounded Detroit the reliance on the auto business and the degree to which members of organized labor lived in these nicer areas greatly exceeds any such situation in Chicago or its suburbs. Fact is the diverse range of industries / sectors that employ folks in the Loop that live in the suburbs gives the whole region a more interdependent relationship than Detroit.
That said, the kinds of jobs left inside Chicago for folks that do not have the skills to work in the largely white collar, high paying Loop based firms are so few that if you do not have an "inside connection" it probably means you'll never get a shot at such employment. For these low skilled potential workers they almost certainly do better grunting it out at a low level service sector / retail job in some non-descript strip mall or industrial park in DuPage Co. Again, this too is rather different than the union dominated landscape in Detroit that meant even suppliers that did locate out to the suburbs STILL had to have a shop that was fully represented by UAW or other powerful union...
I am not really advocating for ANY particular solution. I do think that the data presented gives a whole lot of people plenty of reasons to rethink where they might be living if they want to give their kids a shot at a better future.
So you have no idea for a fix?
Why does the shot for a better future have to mean moving to the suburbs? Why shouldn't the people who care about their kids and their futures do so within Chicago and Cook county? If all the people who care about their kids' futures move out of Chicago and Cook county, then all that is left are people who don't care about their kids' futures, thereby making the current situation worse, correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
Further, from what I know about how and why the "wheels falling off" of towns like Detroit it does seem like there are still a critical mass of folks that are committed enough to Chicago's nicer areas nearer the lake / north of the Lake that such a collapse is not imminent. Of course, the degree to which insiders continue to run things for their own selfish purposes as opposed to trying to more fairly spread out the bounty and burdens equally will determine how long they can stay in power...
Don't you frequently suggest those people who are committed to Chicago's nicer areas move to the suburbs?
And if those people move outside of Chicago and Cook county, how can those outsiders have any say or influence over the insiders that actually live in Cook county and Chicago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
The fact is even in the suburban area that surrounded Detroit the reliance on the auto business and the degree to which members of organized labor lived in these nicer areas greatly exceeds any such situation in Chicago or its suburbs. Fact is the diverse range of industries / sectors that employ folks in the Loop that live in the suburbs gives the whole region a more interdependent relationship than Detroit.
True. But advocating for people who care about the future of the city and county to move out of the city and county seems rather counter productive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
That said, the kinds of jobs left inside Chicago for folks that do not have the skills to work in the largely white collar, high paying Loop based firms are so few that if you do not have an "inside connection" it probably means you'll never get a shot at such employment. For these low skilled potential workers they almost certainly do better grunting it out at a low level service sector / retail job in some non-descript strip mall or industrial park in DuPage Co. Again, this too is rather different than the union dominated landscape in Detroit that meant even suppliers that did locate out to the suburbs STILL had to have a shop that was fully represented by UAW or other powerful union...
Does the county of DuPage really want or need a mass migration of low skilled workers?
I get the feeling that Chicago is being painted as the "Old Country" and DuPage county is like "America: the land of milk and honey; the streets are paved with gold; there's a chicken in every pot; your dreams can come true". As many immigrants learned in the late 1800's and early 1900's, moving can certainly help, but it doesn't guarantee anything. Plus the people who have been there for generations may not take too kindly to the new migrants.
I routinely suggest to folks with the means to live in a costly part of Chicago AND the time to master the intricacies of CPS complex admissions policies to find a spot where they'll be happy. As Drover's recent tale suggests, even the moderately clued in folks sometimes get shut out and if they move to Seattle or Park Slope I really won't weep for them. The folks that should care are those committed to the lifestyle that they cherish in Chicago but too often these urbanophiles are too willing to give Rahm & Madigan and the other crooks a pass...
The data from the studies cited specifically tracked the outcomes for those who moved - their kids had THE MOST POSITIVE impact on earnings if they relocated to DuPage and those that moved to Cook Co had a NEGATIVE impact that ranked them 8th from the bottom. That is not a "chicken in every pot" politician's take it is the FACTS!
The well off hipsters, yuppies, connected insiders, and assorted deluded chill types can still enjoy the parts of Chicago where they look down their noses at places that serve chicken sandwiches Minday-Saturday and probably feel smug about paying $80 or more for a carry out pizza that pays the crew making 'em a "living wage"...
I routinely suggest to folks with the means to live in a costly part of Chicago AND the time to master the intricacies of CPS complex admissions policies to find a spot where they'll be happy.
Do you realize that with that statement you're advocating for something like 500,000 - 1,500,000 people to leave Chicago? And you still don't think you are, at least unintentionally, advocating for another Detroit type exodus? I would be one of those people that you're saying should move.
If 500,000 - 1,500,000 people left Chicago and/or Cook County for DuPage County, do you think that would be a good thing for DuPage county and the city of Chicago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
As Drover's recent tale suggests, even the moderately clued in folks sometimes get shut out and if they move to Seattle or Park Slope I really won't weep for them. The folks that should care are those committed to the lifestyle that they cherish in Chicago but too often these urbanophiles are too willing to give Rahm & Madigan and the other crooks a pass...
Whether or not it should be accepted for being the "right" thing to do is up for debate, but the old saying, "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it" comes to mind. So if nothing is "broke" and things are actually good for the people living here under the governance of a certain political party/faction, why should they vote out the people who are overseeing it?
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But what if it is "broke"? I would think the saying, "If it is broke, fix it" would apply.
I'm not sure, "If it is broke, leave it and get a new one" is a real fix to the problem(s) at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
The data from the studies cited specifically tracked the outcomes for those who moved - their kids had THE MOST POSITIVE impact on earnings if they relocated to DuPage and those that moved to Cook Co had a NEGATIVE impact that ranked them 8th from the bottom. That is not a "chicken in every pot" politician's take it is the FACTS!
So all a person has to do is simply move from Cook County to DuPage county, and then things will be significantly better? They don't have to find a better paying job? They don't have to continue or further their education? They don't have to be anymore active in their kid's life and education?
All they have to do is move across arbitrary political lines and their life automatically gets better, no other work needed? Keep everything about their life the same, not changing a thing except place of residence?
That sounds like something that was told to those immigrants before they got on the boat to Ellis Island.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
The well off hipsters, yuppies, connected insiders, and assorted deluded chill types can still enjoy the parts of Chicago where they look down their noses at places that serve chicken sandwiches Minday-Saturday and probably feel smug about paying $80 or more for a carry out pizza that pays the crew making 'em a "living wage"...
Here's my only bit of sarcasm:
"A living wage? Who the hell do these people think they are? Expecting to work 40 hours a week and pay for the basics of living in modern America with some left over for savings and modest entertainment? That's not why the Founding Fathers created this country. Bootstraps. BOOTSTRAPS!!!… or just move to the suburbs."
Does the county of DuPage really want or need a mass migration of low skilled workers?
Whether it wants or needs it, that's exactly what its been getting for the past couple decades (longer in some cases). You can drive around declining suburbs like Bolingbrook, Addison, and West Chicago if you want to see the end result.
I routinely suggest to folks with the means to live in a costly part of Chicago AND the time to master the intricacies of CPS complex admissions policies to find a spot where they'll be happy. As Drover's recent tale suggests, even the moderately clued in folks sometimes get shut out and if they move to Seattle or Park Slope I really won't weep for them. The folks that should care are those committed to the lifestyle that they cherish in Chicago but too often these urbanophiles are too willing to give Rahm & Madigan and the other crooks a pass...
The data from the studies cited specifically tracked the outcomes for those who moved - their kids had THE MOST POSITIVE impact on earnings if they relocated to DuPage and those that moved to Cook Co had a NEGATIVE impact that ranked them 8th from the bottom. That is not a "chicken in every pot" politician's take it is the FACTS!
The well off hipsters, yuppies, connected insiders, and assorted deluded chill types can still enjoy the parts of Chicago where they look down their noses at places that serve chicken sandwiches Minday-Saturday and probably feel smug about paying $80 or more for a carry out pizza that pays the crew making 'em a "living wage"...
I was on board with you, until you denigrated the right of pizza makers to make a decent living. You may have heard about the pizza shop on State Street in Madison, WI that had the audacity to provide health insurance coverage for its workers--they are truly fighting the good fight..
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