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Because the same reason it sucks as an office building would make it suck as a university. Poor HVAC, poor configuration, difficulty re-configuring and doing such things as running network wire etc. It simply sucks as a building period. Every maintenance and remodel task is multiples as expensive as it should be, HVAC costs are huge and don't work... It looks nice ascetically but is exceedingly poor in function. It needs to come down.
Everything in life and of mans invention. Is not the most efficient thing Pointe even when first conceived.
You being very ultra-Conservative would front on auto companies needing to become even more fuel efficient..... because MONEY RULES EVEN EFFICIENCY.
I don't expect to fear the Thompson destroyed. Just too many Liberal Progressives to fight for landmark status.
We just don't destroy every unique grandiose structure as inefficient by ultra-Conservative standards. We fix them and repurposed them. If up to you much of Chicago's historic buildings WOULD be gone. You would have allowed the Chicago Theater and so many other structures, to be destroyed.....
As evocative of San Francisco as the Golden Gate Bridge and Fisherman's Wharf, the Palace of Fine Arts is an icon of the city, arguably its most beautiful structure. Built for a 1919 world's fair that announced to the world that the city destroyed by earthquake and fire was back. The building was no more a permanent structure than Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry which shares with the Palace of Fine Arts a status of a temporary building for a world's fair.
The World's Columbian building was refurbished to permanence in order to make it a home for the museum. Unlike MSI, the Palace of Fine Arts stood only for the beauty it created. While a parcel around it served as a "real building" (once home of the city's own mini-MSI), the palace was, is, just a public space.
So all the talk we have about the Thompson Center, how difficult it would be to reposition, how unsuitable it is an office building or other such structure, little talk remains on a simple, elegant, and far, far less expensive plan for the site.
Treat the TC like you treat Millennium Park: public space, the commons. Turn the TC into a have-you-cake-and-eat-it locale: you get the commons of a public square without losing the density of the site which would remain as it is.
The Thompson Center could be ventilated, a true public plaza. It could be a real open air structure, just as the covering that shelters the Chagal mosaic in the Chase plaza from sun and elements is.
In so doing, not a thing has to be done to the CTA station, the most complex in the system and the one that carries more lines than any other.
True indoor space would include the 2 or 3 floors of the CTA station. Primarily it would include the ground level of the TC which would still be able to surrounded by stores and restaurants. Arguably ones that might get even more foot traffic as the block would be an inviting place to go. The smaller lower level could also have its own enclosures.
But the rest would be that open air, ventilated structure, losing the quality of being too hot because of heat rising in the inclosure and the obvious fact that heat is not an issue in a space nobody would ever be in.
Public space is a dying institution in a nation where public anything is looked upon with disdain, where everything must be privatized and the bottom line for everything is in the pocketbook. The grace of European cities is their civic plazas and squares; in America, our public places are more like disgraces.
Look at Millennium Park: a far-too-expensive park that devoured money as it was built in cost over-runs from hell. Was it worth it? Damned right it was. It took an unsightly rail yard in Chicago's "front yard" and covered it with one of the best urban spaces in the nation. It generated in part the residential repurposing in the east Loop, it became a tourist mecca, it is a magnificent piece of PR for the city.
I absolutely love Dave's attitude here, that not everything has to be about the buck, that preserving the elements worth preserving enriches our city and keeps its connection to its past. Dave gets it: the TC can very well be the gift we give ourselves. and others: Virginia has its historic triangle with Jamestown, Williamsburg, and Yorktown. Boston has its Freedom Trail. Chicago can have its own "Public Triangle" in the form of the River Walk, Millennium Park, and the Thompson Center, all within blocks of each other.
We just don't destroy every unique grandiose structure as inefficient by ultra-Conservative standards. We fix them and repurposed them. If up to you much of Chicago's historic buildings WOULD be gone. You would have allowed the Chicago Theater and so many other structures, to be destroyed.....
Yes I know from the outside and even from the lobby of the building it looks unique and nice. If it were in the outer suburbs maybe it could be kept. However, it is in the middle of the central business district. We can't keep a building that is hopelessly nonfunctional that takes up that much space in the heart of the central business district because it looks nice. The state has looked for decades for ways to make it work and there is just no feasible way to do it. It is like taking a 86 Toyota Corolla and converting it into a race car. You would need to start from scratch as the parts, configuration and chassis are totally unsuitable.
Yes I know from the outside and even from the lobby of the building it looks unique and nice. If it were in the outer suburbs maybe it could be kept. However, it is in the middle of the central business district. We can't keep a building that is hopelessly nonfunctional that takes up that much space in the heart of the central business district because it looks nice. The state has looked for decades for ways to make it work and there is just no feasible way to do it. It is like taking a 86 Toyota Corolla and converting it into a race car. You would need to start from scratch as the parts, configuration and chassis are totally unsuitable.
But in reality. If the state itself claims the Thompson needs $300-million in repairs..... it proves it neglected them. Even exterior ground level poles had marble simply removed and show neglect.
The one problem was a change to a cheaper exterior glass that left far more of the sun issues in. That Was a HUUUUGE mistake.
But as merely a office building in the future. Does seem less likely. As for in the Loop and location could hold a huge building like a super-tall as better use. We have the architect show last year. One still could be butted up to the current Thompson in a future re-purpose with a skyscraper addition.
We almost lost most of the Loop Theaters as land better for a skyscraper, almost lost the Chicago Theater. The old Library as a Cultural Center tourist visit. What a prime sight for a new skyscraper that would have been.
The whole S Michigan Ave early skyscrapers were at risk, one across from the Art Institute was lost. Preservationist fought to save what once was seen as just prime for new skyscrapers instead.
Many were re-purposed to things other then offices and the like. Look at the early preservation to lofts like Printers row in the Loop.
Chicago's HUGE selling point is how it blends new and old. It would have been different if not for the active preservationist fighting to save many till the era of re-purpose hit big.
Not everything is cut and dry on only the most efficient and cost saving...... is what every decision should rest on. There WILL BE a re-purpose of some kind for it IMO. I see no way preservationist will let it come down. That seems almost a sure bet. So best we have ideas on that end.
Any full tare-down..... having a transportation hub under it. Will add cost and time for re-construction of anything totally new. So it would never start again as a totally clear lot.
But in reality. If the state itself claims the Thompson needs $300-million in repairs..... it proves it neglected them. Even exterior ground level poles had marble simply removed and show neglect.
The one problem was a change to a cheaper exterior glass that left far more of the sun issues in. That Was a HUUUUGE mistake.
But as merely a office building in the future. Does seem less likely. As for in the Loop and location could hold a huge building like a super-tall as better use. We have the architect show last year. One still could be butted up to the current Thompson in a future re-purpose with a skyscraper addition.
We almost lost most of the Loop Theaters as land better for a skyscraper, almost lost the Chicago Theater. The old Library as a Cultural Center tourist visit. What a prime sight for a new skyscraper that would have been.
The whole S Michigan Ave early skyscrapers were at risk, one across from the Art Institute was lost. Preservationist fought to save what once was seen as just prime for new skyscrapers instead.
Many were re-purposed to things other then offices and the like. Look at the early preservation to lofts like Printers row in the Loop.
Chicago's HUGE selling point is how it blends new and old. It would have been different if not for the active preservationist fighting to save many till the era of re-purpose hit big.
Not everything is cut and dry on only the most efficient and cost saving...... is what every decision should rest on. There WILL BE a re-purpose of some kind for it IMO. I see no way preservationist will let it come down. That seems almost a sure bet. So best we have ideas on that end.
Any full tare-down..... having a transportation hub under it. Will add cost and time for re-construction of anything totally new. So it would never start again as a totally clear lot.
btw...as to the transportation hub, easily the most complex in the CTA system, one of only I believe two (with Roosevelt and State) that offer el-subway links and the only one that carries six lines...
if we were to go ahead and create a muskless CTA express service to O'Hare and Midway, wouldn't this be the logical spot for it rather than Block 37? Virtually the whole CTA system has relatively easy access to the station.
Dave, what amazes me is how you are the one basically spearheading this and keeping it out there, yet I would think that if you turned the clock back some 2 decades, you would hardly have been any sort of outlier in wanted to save this structure. Once the post-WWII tear down and building mania ran itself out and our current era of monetizing everything, no interest in the commons, and no sense of place, there existed number of years when preservation was pushed and took place.
the 1950s era (which ran on into the next decades) that attempted to rebuild America in a new way had so many casualties: homes and apartments torn down and replaced by projects, the expressways tearing up the cityscape, the tragic loss of train stations (whole stations disappeared and the classic concourse of Union Station replaced by a bland high rise. I won't even get into New York's Penn Station), buildings like the old stock exchange destroyed.
Afterwards, there was a real attempt to save and renew. Perhaps emblemized best by the battle against Robert Moses to cut an expressway though lower Manhattan. Today we don't seem to care which is a shame.
Strangely we tout part of Chicago's successes as coming from being a "legacy city"....yet this important piece of work is very much a part of our legacy. My guess: non-legacy cities like Denver, Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta...if they had something like the Thompson Center...would have worked to save it
As evocative of San Francisco as the Golden Gate Bridge and Fisherman's Wharf, the Palace of Fine Arts is an icon of the city, arguably its most beautiful structure. Built for a 1919 world's fair that announced to the world that the city destroyed by earthquake and fire was back. The building was no more a permanent structure than Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry which shares with the Palace of Fine Arts a status of a temporary building for a world's fair.
The World's Columbian building was refurbished to permanence in order to make it a home for the museum. Unlike MSI, the Palace of Fine Arts stood only for the beauty it created. While a parcel around it served as a "real building" (once home of the city's own mini-MSI), the palace was, is, just a public space.
So all the talk we have about the Thompson Center, how difficult it would be to reposition, how unsuitable it is an office building or other such structure, little talk remains on a simple, elegant, and far, far less expensive plan for the site.
Treat the TC like you treat Millennium Park: public space, the commons. Turn the TC into a have-you-cake-and-eat-it locale: you get the commons of a public square without losing the density of the site which would remain as it is.
The Thompson Center could be ventilated, a true public plaza. It could be a real open air structure, just as the covering that shelters the Chagal mosaic in the Chase plaza from sun and elements is.
In so doing, not a thing has to be done to the CTA station, the most complex in the system and the one that carries more lines than any other.
True indoor space would include the 2 or 3 floors of the CTA station. Primarily it would include the ground level of the TC which would still be able to surrounded by stores and restaurants. Arguably ones that might get even more foot traffic as the block would be an inviting place to go. The smaller lower level could also have its own enclosures.
But the rest would be that open air, ventilated structure, losing the quality of being too hot because of heat rising in the inclosure and the obvious fact that heat is not an issue in a space nobody would ever be in.
Public space is a dying institution in a nation where public anything is looked upon with disdain, where everything must be privatized and the bottom line for everything is in the pocketbook. The grace of European cities is their civic plazas and squares; in America, our public places are more like disgraces.
Look at Millennium Park: a far-too-expensive park that devoured money as it was built in cost over-runs from hell. Was it worth it? Damned right it was. It took an unsightly rail yard in Chicago's "front yard" and covered it with one of the best urban spaces in the nation. It generated in part the residential repurposing in the east Loop, it became a tourist mecca, it is a magnificent piece of PR for the city.
I absolutely love Dave's attitude here, that not everything has to be about the buck, that preserving the elements worth preserving enriches our city and keeps its connection to its past. Dave gets it: the TC can very well be the gift we give ourselves. and others: Virginia has its historic triangle with Jamestown, Williamsburg, and Yorktown. Boston has its Freedom Trail. Chicago can have its own "Public Triangle" in the form of the River Walk, Millennium Park, and the Thompson Center, all within blocks of each other.
you have some interesting musings here but this one takes the cake!
Comparing those pictures of a beautiful classical structure to the hideous post modern atrocity of a facade that the Thompson center has me laughing...
glass is not pretty, at all, sorry, modern architecture is pure crap and especially the Helmut Jahn pomo shlock from the 80's with the goofy and bad colors
And yes, money always matters, the fact that it hasn't is a tribute to the bankrupt state of Illinois
Dave, this one is for you: I want to share something that is strictly anecdotal. I can attach nothing important to it and the experience lasted for three or four seconds at best. I was on my computer, opening up photos in one of its folders. These were all jpg's and I had no idea what I was opening until it popped up on the monitor. So all were in that regard sight unseen.
When I opened one showing the full interior of the Thompson Center, there was something about it that just moved me greatly. The effect was very much like something hit me at that moment. I can try to define why or what but I simply cannot find the words. I could tell you that I think the huge space with sunlight pouring in, the sense of the commons, that public space on ground level, and the like. But I am just grasping at straws on this.
What i do know was I was moved. And strangely awed by what I was seeing (something that never would have been the case if I know before hand what I was opening). So I am operating here on pure emotion and I regret I cannot give any meaning to this other then capturing a moment in time.
If you want to change hats from DavePa to DaveDoc and analyze and explain all this, then go ahead and give it a shot. You do have the credentials and they are fully visible in the title of the thread: this stunning building. You certainly captured the feeling I had before I even experienced it.
Dave, this one is for you: I want to share something that is strictly anecdotal. I can attach nothing important to it and the experience lasted for three or four seconds at best. I was on my computer, opening up photos in one of its folders. These were all jpg's and I had no idea what I was opening until it popped up on the monitor. So all were in that regard sight unseen.
When I opened one showing the full interior of the Thompson Center, there was something about it that just moved me greatly. The effect was very much like something hit me at that moment. I can try to define why or what but I simply cannot find the words. I could tell you that I think the huge space with sunlight pouring in, the sense of the commons, that public space on ground level, and the like. But I am just grasping at straws on this.
What i do know was I was moved. And strangely awed by what I was seeing (something that never would have been the case if I know before hand what I was opening). So I am operating here on pure emotion and I regret I cannot give any meaning to this other then capturing a moment in time.
If you want to change hats from DavePa to DaveDoc and analyze and explain all this, then go ahead and give it a shot. You do have the credentials and they are fully visible in the title of the thread: this stunning building. You certainly captured the feeling I had before I even experienced it.
Awesome THANKS ED. A 1980s building that looks like it's decades in the future ..... Loved it.
Rip it down ...... a totally ridiculous notion reinforced by that picture alone you posted ....
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