Do you think the EL will ever be expanded or new lines added? (Chicago: movers, crime)

[chet everett]

Right, if the general principle for conceiving of transit extensions is "Build it and they will come" is what want to have then great, go ahead. No need to use a TIF, just try and line up a regular revenue bond. Think there will many takers willing to bet on 50 (or even 100) year pay off? TIF is only 23 years. I can guarantee that would be too short...

The City has limited resources. Safety is pretty high on the list, murders and shooting tend to be much bigger deterrent to locating to a neighborhood than "not the most modern transit"...

The pay back from some kind of controlled access roadway is far quicker and broader than any sort of rail system. Madigan and Daley know that jobs from transport / trucking (lets forget Mr Sorich's Hired Truck for now... Sorich charges valid, feds insist :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Hired Truck Scandal (http://www.suntimes.com/news/hired/31588,cst-nws-hired19.article - broken link)) are a far bigger boost to the City than simply making a corridor for transit...

[oakparkdude]

No, the TIFs not for the transit extension, its for my solid gold equestrian statue.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Look, over the past 20+ years or so, there's been a general trend of greater desirability of urban (specifically Chicago) living.

Trend? Perhaps for the chattering classes but the population of the Burbs is growing faster than that of Chicago, if Chicago's is growing at all. Hell, Joliet alone is probably growing faster than Chicago, Will County certainly is.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Wow, I'm really surprised how warped some viewpoints on this thread have become.........

My, my; ain't you the self-righteous one. Those that don't want to live like you are warped, eh?

[chet everett]

Well, I give 'em this, if they want to live in a denser place it is probably a smart thing to try get people who live all bunched up to think alike

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

My, my; ain't you the self-righteous one. Those that don't want to live like you are warped, eh?

It's not self-righeous, and I never said anything in the sense that those that don't want to live like me are warped in any way. The car had, does, and always will be a dominent form of transportation. I'm speaking about *large* urban areas and the healthiest, most economically as well as environmentally friendly ways of moving millions of people on a daily basis. From studying, listening, watching and hearing the modern day consensus on where our country and our world are going, as well as what we've learned from the past, I really just thought what was being said was a very outdated theory....or warped.



Or maybe I'm just alone here being crazy that I don't think freeways are the wave of the future and the salvation of our current infrastructure problems.

[cubssoxfan]

I believe the appeal of light or heavy rail is psychological more than anything else. I perceive that train service will be more frequent and have better chance of arriving on time. A new version of this is rapid transit bus. Similar to light rail but less expensive. The bus run seperate from vehicular traffic, has more distance between stops and uses timed stop-lights to travel faster than vehicular traffic. It's a "poor man's" light rail. I will take trains but hate US city-busses.
As captain obvious, it's my job to point out that people go to the "tree-less moonscapes" of outer suburbia for less expensive homes with bigger lots. What is ironic is that sometimes, the net cost is higher than a more expensive home in a closer, more established suburb. More expensive because taxes are higher (to pay for all the new infrastructure) and commuting costs are higher (especially at $4 gas-which will return). Quality of life also suffers and so many back yard games of yardball never happen because dad/mom is too pooped from a 1.5-2 hour commute and junior is too sucked into his/her PS3.
At some point, 50 years, 100 years? the diminishing farmland may spur tighter zoning requiring denser planning. OR the bad sections of town get gentrified and the "hood" becomes the hinterlands.
Yes roadway and free/tollway building is and will be necessary, BUT balanced development with public transit and walkable/bicycleable neighborhoods is also a must. weather it's for transit, going to the store or for exercise the walking and bicycling part of the equation is important. Bicycling is one of the biggest sports/recreation pursuits in the US. Yet interconnected trails and safe bicycle lanes are the exception in most of the US. The painted bike lanes in Chicago are a start but laughable. A true seperation/barrier should exist, but the motivation to do this is still lacking.

[chet everett]

Freeways are an option, tollways a better one. I really do not have anything against railways, but the cost per mile is off the charts, and when you factor in the sky high operational and maintenance costs it is clear why buses and trams are preferred by any transit system. The "negative image" busses have could be overcome in many ways. Frankly I think the GPS and text messaging that CTA has is nice step in that direction. They need to do more. Use more CNG busses until they can get some that run off even better power sources. Increase the ammenities on busses -- WiFi would be a nice thing, as would A/C & heat that worked, windows that aren't etched by gang bangers...

Personal transportation evolved a lot from the immeadiate post WWII tech, seems to me transit moves far more slowly.


btw- if there is a "bike lane" that is separated from the road how is the plowing for THAT going get done when Chicago get afford to do 'regular' plowing? I mean folks this is the Upper Midwest. I have been to places like Davis California and its a bicylce dream, but the snow that they get there is NOTHING like we get...

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by chet everett

btw- if there is a "bike lane" that is separated from the road how is the plowing for THAT going get done when Chicago get afford to do 'regular' plowing? I mean folks this is the Upper Midwest. I have been to places like Davis California and its a bicylce dream, but the snow that they get there is NOTHING like we get...

I am thinking a network like Amserdam
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[Irishtom29]

One problem with suburban buses is that they run so infrequently that one is loath to simply walk up to the route from fear of a long wait if you miss the latest bus. Yes there are schedules but who trusts them? So you have to plan using suburban buses and it's easier to say to Hell with it and jump in the car. As old Chet has mentioned this problem comes from lack of population density.

Whereas in the city they run frequently enough that one just goes up to the bus stop and waits. You don't have to plan it.