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Old 06-11-2010, 11:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Mike, you do understand that the adversary and his cohorts are SPIRIT? YES?
What do the scriptures tell you? They tell you that the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41.They tell you that the antichrist and the false prophet will have been in the lake of fire in torment for a thousand years before Satan himself is thrown in there with them. Revelation 19:20-20:15. The Scriptures further say that unbelieving humanity will go away into eternal punishment in that same lake of fire. Revelation 20:15.

The place is real. Satan and the fallen angels and unbelieving humanity all end up in that place forever. Now the fire is either real, or if it's symbolic, then the symbolism stands for something much worse than fire. Something so indescribable that it can only be described by the use of the word 'fire.'

You either believe the Scriptures or you don't. I have no sympathy for those who end up there when they have been given warning after warning about it. They end up there by their own refusal to believe the truth.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Now the fire is either real, or if it's symbolic, then the symbolism stands for something much worse than fire. Something so indescribable that it can only be described by the use of the word 'fire.' You either believe the Scriptures or you don't.
"For our God is a consuming fire." Hebrews 12:29

I assume in this verse you believe the fire is symbolic, but not that it stands for something much worse than fire. Right?
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,397,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What do the scriptures tell you? They tell you that the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41.They tell you that the antichrist and the false prophet will have been in the lake of fire in torment for a thousand years before Satan himself is thrown in there with them. Revelation 19:20-20:15. The Scriptures further say that unbelieving humanity will go away into eternal punishment in that same lake of fire. Revelation 20:15.

The place is real. Satan and the fallen angels and unbelieving humanity all end up in that place forever. Now the fire is either real, or if it's symbolic, then the symbolism stands for something much worse than fire. Something so indescribable that it can only be described by the use of the word 'fire.'

You either believe the Scriptures or you don't. I have no sympathy for those who end up there when they have been given warning after warning about it. They end up there by their own refusal to believe the truth.
What is spiritual fire and what does it do to corruption and hate?
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Do not make foolish assumptions about what I think.

Lady, you deliberately twist and distort the truth to your own purpose. Paul describes the fate of tribulational unbelievers in 2 Thess 1.


2 Peter 3:15-16 'and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
And I thought it was just me you called "Lady"...
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,135,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no reprieve. It is permanant. First hades, and then Gehenna.
Hi Mike,
I'm struck at the lack of mercy in your descriptions. Even if hell were real, I simply cannot see where God "cannot forgive." Jesus tells us to bless, forgive, and not condemn. He was the image of the invisible God.
But your stance seems to be that we should curse, condemn and never forgive!

blessings to you,
brian
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The God who you believe uses ET on unbelievers . . . is a Satanic corruption using the veil of ignorance over the OT to perpetuate and destroy Jesus' message of love. Jesus came to remove that veil of ignorance and correct the understanding of the true nature of God as Love. The ignorant primitive minds were easy to convince by appealing to their own human weaknesses . . . and the agendas of men have perpetuated that ignorance for their own purposes.

But Jesus is living and working on what God has "Written in our hearts" to remove the veil of OT descriptions of God. The God of human weaknesses (jealousy, vengeance, wrath, egotism, anger, genocide, rape, pillage, murder of men, women, and children, firstborns, etc. and the myriad horrors attributed to God by primitive savages) is Satan . . . NOT God. It is Satan who has preyed on our human weaknesses to deceive and undermine the example and message of Christ within the very church Christ founded. God has no human weaknesses! God is love and love is 1 Cor 13:1-7.
Amen! Tried to rep you for this one. Heartsong~
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:30 AM
 
20,411 posts, read 15,780,702 times
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Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi Mike,
I'm struck at the lack of mercy in your descriptions. Even if hell were real, I simply cannot see where God "cannot forgive." Jesus tells us to bless, forgive, and not condemn. He was the image of the invisible God.
But your stance seems to be that we should curse, condemn and never forgive!

blessings to you,
brian
Hell is real. All who die without Christ will spend eternity there. The time for forgiveness ends at the point of physical death. You flat out reject what Jesus Himself said about hell. He said it Himself that He will be the judge who orders the unbeliever into the lake of fire. You don't want to believe it because it upsets the false image you have of God.

And typical of uni's, you twist and distort things to your own purpose. Your claim that my stance is that we should curse, condemn and never forgive because I defend the truth concerning eternal condemnation of the unbeliever, is asinine.
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Not judging, Finn. We all gotta go through it, either now or later.
Exactly. But the churches have taught people that Jesus is a magic word that, if uttered once in the sinner's prayer, will waive all judgment from their lives personally. It's a lie. God is holy and just. The NT is clear that we will be judged according to our works and with admonishments to purify our hearts by the washing of the water of God's word. No doubt there are plenty of professing Christians who are going to be hurt by the 2nd death because some preacher taught them they were no longer accountable to God after they got 'saved'.

Heartsong
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,086,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Amen! Tried to rep you for this one. Heartsong~
I tried to rep him too but no luck so will here
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:46 AM
 
20,411 posts, read 15,780,702 times
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
"For our God is a consuming fire." Hebrews 12:29

I assume in this verse you believe the fire is symbolic, but not that it stands for something much worse than fire. Right?
The phrase 'consuming fire' is always reserved for judgment. God is a consuming fire in the strictness of His justice and the purity of His holiness.

In Deut 9:3 it is used with regard to the promise that God would go before Israel and clear out the land that they would soon possess, and He would do this as a consuming fire.

In Hebrews 10: 26,27 there is the choice between Christ or judgment. ''For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27) but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Now get it through your head. The judgment for those who die without Christ is that they are going to be punished for eternity in Gehenna-the lake of fire, the furnace of fire, the eternal fire. Take your pick. The place and the punishment and the eternal duration of it are real.

Final comment.
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