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Old 07-12-2010, 09:23 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,572,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
[/font]

Hi Verna,

You are assuming that the commandments spoken of here are referring to the ten commandments. How hard is it for the disciples to write the word ten to that word "commandments"?



How can a sabbath keeper not take pride in keeping the sabbath over others and yet no flesh shall glory in His presence?



1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

That is why Jesus is Lord over the sabbath.



Romans 13: 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The keeping of the sabbath is not listed as a one to love others by because it does not apply to loving others, but yet loving others is the fulfilling of the law.



If you are going to quote John, then do so from the actual book to know what commandments he is referring to. Surely John would want them to know what those commandments are.

1 John 3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Those two are the commandments John was referring to from 1 John 5:3



You are not going to find Jesus saying that nor any of the disciples. The one thing you have to remember is that the Gentiles are not Jewish and therefore in letters to the churches of the Gentiles to be handed down from generations to generations, they would have been taught the ten commandments, but they were not taught in such a way that keeping the sabbath was paramount in their walk with Jesus for justification, but they summed up the ten commandments by loving thy neighbor as thyself. It was not an oversight in not commanding them to keep the sabbath as obviously, scriptures are testifying how we are justified as His and identified as the children of God... by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus is Lord over us. It is His righteousness that bring us Home and not by the deeds of the law. He justifies us and thus we cannot be condemned for we are guiltless as Jesus Christ is Lord even over the sabbath.


[font=Georgia]

But no one can obtain righteousness by keeping them to be His.

Now we are to be witnesses of Jesus Christ by declaring our faith in Him for He has made us His. We are the Lord's. This is to His glory. Amen.
Great point Enow...
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,853 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Hi Verna,

You are assuming that the commandments spoken of here are referring to the ten commandments. How hard is it for the disciples to write the word ten to that word "commandments"?

Rev.14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

There is no need to add the word "ten" before the word commandments...we know from the beginning that the commandments spoken of here are, in fact the ten commandments of God as spoken of here in Exodus 24:38..."Moses was there with the LORD 40 days and 40 nights without food or water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the promise, the ten commandments."

Deuteronomy 4:13..."The LORD told you about the terms of his promise, the ten commandments, which he commanded you to do. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets."

Deuteronomy 10:4..."The LORD wrote on these tablets the same words as before, the ten commandments. He had spoken these words to you from the fire on the mountain on the day of the assembly. Then the LORD gave them to me."

The Ten Commandments are to be kept by those who determine to have a relationship with God Almighty...it is and always has been the terms of His Covenant with those who keep them...ALL of them...not just nine...there are ten not nine....TEN.

It is in the very character of Christ that we live our lives in this manner...the character of all true saints is to believe God's Word enough to obey them..we are told in Scripture to believe in Jesus...to walk as He walked...to "be ye holy as I am holy"...and He kept the Sabbath holy as He kept all of the other nine throughout His life. The true believer will suffer any thing in obeying the commandments of God..and professing the name of Jesus. A true saint, when death does come to them, will be found IN Christ...we will die in the Lord...die in the cause of Christ, in a state of union with Christ. We will rest from all sin...temptation...sorrow...and persecution...because the wicked will not be able to trouble us any longer...that! peace that passes all understanding in the midst of darkness and trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
How can a sabbath keeper not take pride in keeping the sabbath over others and yet no flesh shall glory in His presence?


Enow...I do not take pride in keeping the Sabbath...and I keep it. As I attempt to spread God's truth to all here and here in my physical life, it is done with nothing but love for you as my motive. One can be proud of their accomplishments without comparing themselves to another...and I do not compare myself with anyone...I just want so badly for everyone to be with God and Jesus in heaven for all of eternity...like most everyone so seems to want to be. I only hope for you all what you hope for for yourselves...and I know how to get there...and I want you to get there too. It is received by many as prideful...but I cannot help how one receives God's truth with their own hearts. They call me prideful...legalistic...hateful...unloving...boast ful...and worse...but all I'm guilty of is living out the will of God for my life as He tells me to do in His Word...the Scriptures.

I understand that NO! flesh shall glory in His presence...and I would venture to say that I understand this probably more than you do...?...or anyone else that comes against this truth....why?...because I understand it so well, that I know my flesh MUST! be burned off through the suffering of it...by not giving in to it<<<>>>hence the "suffering!"...the aroma of burning flesh is but a sweet perfume to the nostrils of God...we are to take up our cross, and follow Him...we are to be a living sacrifice...sacrificing our fleshly desires in order to walk in His Spirit...to be found on that great Day! holy and blameless. I keep the Ten Commandments including the FOURTH one because I love Him...for no other reason...but ONLY! because I love Him so much...and He says this is how we love Him...by keeping His Commandments.

"Each of you must examine your own actions. Then you can be proud of your own accomplishments without comparing yourself to others." Galatians 6:4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We cannot walk in the flesh and in the Spirit at the same time...we are either walking in in one or the other...no fence riding allowed here...no lukewarmness allowed here...no one foot in and one foot out allowed here...let your yea be yea and your ney be ney. He vomits out of His mouth lukewarm people who stand before Him.
"Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Corinthians 7:1.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8

"Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

"He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully." Psalm 24:4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
That is why Jesus is Lord over the sabbath.

What? is why Jesus is Lord over the Sabbath...?......please explain why you used this statement in support of your previous statement when you quoted 1 John 3:3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
Romans 13: 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Nevertheless...the law IS fulfilled if it is indeed written upon the heart...the whole law...all ten commandments...there is no way around it...no matter how hard you try....the Commandments are forever...they are the "TERMS of The Covenant!"...break them...and you have broken your end of the covenant God has made with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
The keeping of the sabbath is not listed as a one to love others by because it does not apply to loving others, but yet loving others is the fulfilling of the law.

The keeping of the sabbath is listed as one that honors God...alone. The first 4 Commandments fall under the 1st of the two commandments that you and so many others like to quote all the time. These first four honor God. The rest of the 6 fall under the 2nd of the two you all like to quote all of the time...honoring others...through the fruits of the Spirit....you cannot get away from keeping the Ten Commandments.

I know it is the 4th one that keeps everyone running...that's the thorn that punctures so deeply...fight it all you want...you cannot get around God's continuous command in keeping the Ten Commandments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
If you are going to quote John, then do so from the actual book to know what commandments he is referring to. Surely John would want them to know what those commandments are.

...do so from the ACTUAL book..?!..."For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3...what do you mean ?...I did get this from the ACTUAL book...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
1 John 3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow

Those two are the commandments John was referring to from 1 John 5:3

Yes...and they establish the keeping of the Ten Commandments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
You are not going to find Jesus saying that nor any of the disciples. The one thing you have to remember is that the Gentiles are not Jewish and therefore in letters to the churches of the Gentiles to be handed down from generations to generations, they would have been taught the ten commandments, but they were not taught in such a way that keeping the sabbath was paramount in their walk with Jesus for justification, but they summed up the ten commandments by loving thy neighbor as thyself. It was not an oversight in not commanding them to keep the sabbath as obviously, scriptures are testifying how we are justified as His and identified as the children of God... by faith in Jesus Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow

Jesus is Lord over us. It is His righteousness that bring us Home and not by the deeds of the law. He justifies us and thus we cannot be condemned for we are guiltless as Jesus Christ is Lord even over the sabbath.

But no one can obtain righteousness by keeping them to be His.

Now we are to be witnesses of Jesus Christ by declaring our faith in Him for He has made us His. We are the Lord's. This is to His glory. Amen.

A Gentile who is a believer who keeps the Ten Commandments of God is considered spiritual Israel...grafted in with believing Jews as a branch to the Tree of Life...all! of them! in God's eyes...equally His...Praise God!...The root of this Tree is an holy Root..and it is what supports us who believe in, and live in, and obey His Word.

In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,572,203 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
[/font]
Rev.14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

There is no need to add the word "ten" before the word commandments...we know from the beginning that the commandments spoken of here are, in fact the ten commandments of God as spoken of here in Exodus 24:38..."Moses was there with the LORD 40 days and 40 nights without food or water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the promise, the ten commandments."

Deuteronomy 4:13..."The LORD told you about the terms of his promise, the ten commandments, which he commanded you to do. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets."

Deuteronomy 10:4..."The LORD wrote on these tablets the same words as before, the ten commandments. He had spoken these words to you from the fire on the mountain on the day of the assembly. Then the LORD gave them to me."

The Ten Commandments are to be kept by those who determine to have a relationship with God Almighty...it is and always has been the terms of His Covenant with those who keep them...ALL of them...not just nine...there are ten not nine....TEN.


"The terms of His Covenant": remember that phrase, sister, because you have to ponder what had decayeth and waxeth old and ready to vanish.

Hebrews 8: 6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Jesus Christ is Lord over us as He is the Good Shepherd. God will put His laws in our minds and write them on our hearts. God will do this.

John 6: 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I do not see keeping the sabbath as a work of God for followers to do when we are to believe Jesus is the One that justifies us.

Romans 3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is pointless to be identified as a keeper of the law wherein men can boast over another. If one boasts of keeping the sabbath, then they have to keep the whole law but no one was keeping the old covenant and that was why Jesus had to come.

John 7: 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

If we are to be witnesses of the Son by our faith in Jesus Christ as Our Saviour and Our Good Shepherd, then we cannot be a witness of a keeper of the law in regards to the Old Covenant to obtain righteousness.

To be a witness of the New Covenant, we can only declare our faith in Jesus Christ that HE will lead us and guide us in the way we ought to go.

That is a different between man's doing his best in keeping God's laws which is a religion, from what it is now: a reconciled relationship based on trust as it God's turn to enable us to live as His by faith.

Quote:
It is in the very character of Christ that we live our lives in this manner...the character of all true saints is to believe God's Word enough to obey them..we are told in Scripture to believe in Jesus...to walk as He walked...to "be ye holy as I am holy"...and He kept the Sabbath holy as He kept all of the other nine throughout His life.


Then you have yet to receive the meat regarding what He had spoken of regarding Himself as being Lord over the sabbath because the character of all saints is having love for one another while the identity of all the saints is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Quote:
The true believer will suffer any thing in obeying the commandments of God..and professing the name of Jesus. A true saint, when death does come to them, will be found IN Christ...we will die in the Lord...die in the cause of Christ, in a state of union with Christ. We will rest from all sin...temptation...sorrow...and persecution...because the wicked will not be able to trouble us any longer...that! peace that passes all understanding in the midst of darkness and trouble.


You have yet to rest from the labour of keeping the sabbath in order to be His. The point here is that you are His simply by the fact that you believe in Jesus.

Quote:
I do not take pride in keeping the Sabbath...and I keep it.


But if you seek justification by it, are you ready to be judged as one that kept it?

Isaiah 58:13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Have you shopped on the sabbath or have eaten out in a restaurant or have gone to a movie, relying on others to work on the sabbath? Have you relied on services that would not be otherwise available to you on the sabbath like the internet providers or even the telephone company?

Are you really keeping the sabbath? Do you cause someone else to sin by justifying them for working on the sabbath when you take advantage of the services provided that would not otherwaise be available if everyone was keeping the sabbath...which I point out that Jesus said no one was as no one was keeping the law period.

I'm not trying to condemn you, sister. It's just that you are not really applying justification by faith in Jesus Christ if you seek to be justified by keeping the sabbath as well, thus voiding your faith in Jesus as being able to justify you apart from the law.

Quote:
As I attempt to spread God's truth to all here and here in my physical life, it is done with nothing but love for you as my motive. One can be proud of their accomplishments without comparing themselves to another...and I do not compare myself with anyone...I just want so badly for everyone to be with God and Jesus in heaven for all of eternity...like most everyone so seems to want to be. I only hope for you all what you hope for for yourselves...and I know how to get there...and I want you to get there too. It is received by many as prideful...but I cannot help how one receives God's truth with their own hearts. They call me prideful...legalistic...hateful...unloving...boast ful...and worse...but all I'm guilty of is living out the will of God for my life as He tells me to do in His Word...the Scriptures.


When you raised a standard of judgment for justification, apart from faith in Jesus Christ, you will get that because as you are judging, you will be judged.

I believe you are worrying out of this love for others, and sometimes you come across stressing that which will seem to be condemning others by.

Can a police officer have a say when he will work and not work? If everyone kept the sabbath, that means what? No police officer nor fire department, nor hospital nor ambulance services available?

But one can defend that by saying that their jobs is showing love for one another.

But what of businesses for those that need something: baby diapers, baby's milk, or just milk for themselves, medicine, or some more band aids?

They could defend themselves by saying we are showing love for those that may be in desperate need.

What of restaurants and movies and entertainment services for the homes?

Is it there we can raise the finger and say.. ahah! We now have a clear path to condemn. But is it really? What of the shut ins? What of those that are home bound by injuries or illnesses?

What a slippery slope.

That is why no one was keeping the sabbath before and why no one is doing it really now... as we look to Jesus Christ for our justification by faith alone.


Quote:
I understand that NO! flesh shall glory in His presence...and I would venture to say that I understand this probably more than you do...?...or anyone else that comes against this truth....why?...because I understand it so well, that I know my flesh MUST! be burned off through the suffering of it...by not giving in to it<<<>>>hence the "suffering!"...the aroma of burning flesh is but a sweet perfume to the nostrils of God...we are to take up our cross, and follow Him...we are to be a living sacrifice...sacrificing our fleshly desires in order to walk in His Spirit...to be found on that great Day! holy and blameless. I keep the Ten Commandments including the FOURTH one because I love Him...for no other reason...but ONLY! because I love Him so much...and He says this is how we love Him...by keeping His Commandments.


Then we must remember the fading of the Old Covenant if we are to be witnesses of the New. We cannot do both. Either we are in a religion of man's effort and will in seeking to be justified by keeping the law, or we are in a relationship of trust by faith in Jesus Christ as we get to know Him when we take Him at His word that we can rest in Him that we are His as we live our lives by faith in following Him in loving others.

Quote:
"Each of you must examine your own actions. Then you can be proud of your own accomplishments without comparing yourself to others." Galatians 6:4.


Psalm 100: 3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Micah 6: 7Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? 9The LORD's voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.

Quote:
We cannot walk in the flesh and in the Spirit at the same time...we are either walking in in one or the other...no fence riding allowed here...no lukewarmness allowed here...no one foot in and one foot out allowed here...let your yea be yea and your ney be ney. He vomits out of His mouth lukewarm people who stand before Him.
"Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Corinthians 7:1.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8

"Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14
We cannot walk in the religious flesh either. Either recognize what the Lod has done and humbly walk before Him by faith in Jesus Christ or not.

1 Corinthians 3:21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Quote:
What? is why Jesus is Lord over the Sabbath...?......please explain why you used this statement in support of your previous statement when you quoted 1 John 3:3.


Because your reference to Matthew 5:8 is fulfilled in 1 John 3:3.

Quote:
Nevertheless...the law IS fulfilled if it is indeed written upon the heart...the whole law...all ten commandments...there is no way around it...no matter how hard you try....the Commandments are forever...they are the "TERMS of The Covenant!"...break them...and you have broken your end of the covenant God has made with you.


Again, the Old Covenant decayeth, and waxeth old, ready to vanish and did in light of the New Covenant as God will write the laws on our hearts. We do not write the laws on our hearts. God said He will do it and accomplish that which man failed to achieve by the deeds of the law in identifying themselves as His.

Quote:
The keeping of the sabbath is listed as one that honors God...alone. The first 4 Commandments fall under the 1st of the two commandments that you and so many others like to quote all the time. These first four honor God. The rest of the 6 fall under the 2nd of the two you all like to quote all of the time...honoring others...through the fruits of the Spirit....you cannot get away from keeping the Ten Commandments.


If you are under the Ten commandments, then you are under the law. It is on you to seek justification and acceptance from God in doing so.

Quote:
I know it is the 4th one that keeps everyone running...that's the thorn that punctures so deeply...fight it all you want...you cannot get around God's continuous command in keeping the Ten Commandments.


If you wish to be identified with God as per the Old Covenant, then you do so to your error.

Quote:
...do so from the ACTUAL book..?!..."For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3...what do you mean ?...I did get this from the ACTUAL book...?


1 John 3:22-24 is from the Book of 1 John where you got 1 John 5:3 from. John would not be negligent in telling his readers what those commandments were.

Quote:
Yes...and they establish the keeping of the Ten Commandments.


No. There is no mention in 1 John of the listing of the Ten commandments to re enforce the keeping of the sabbath day.

Quote:
A Gentile who is a believer who keeps the Ten Commandments of God is considered spiritual Israel...grafted in with believing Jews as a branch to the Tree of Life...all! of them! in God's eyes...equally His...Praise God!...The root of this Tree is an holy Root..and it is what supports us who believe in, and live in, and obey His Word.


See? You aquainted spiritual Israel by keeping the Ten commandments and not by faith in Jesus Christ.

Failure to see the New Covenant as the Old Covenant vanishes away is what's happening here. May the Lord Jesus Christ as the Truth set you free.

And may you keep the sabbath because you want to and not because you have to as you declare your faith that it is Jesus Christ that justifies you. That is humbly walking before your God in what He has done.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,853 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
[/font]

"The terms of His Covenant": remember that phrase, sister, because you have to ponder what had decayeth and waxeth old and ready to vanish.

Hebrews 8: 6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Jesus Christ is Lord over us as He is the Good Shepherd. God will put His laws in our minds and write them on our hearts. God will do this.

John 6: 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I do not see keeping the sabbath as a work of God for followers to do when we are to believe Jesus is the One that justifies us.

Romans 3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is pointless to be identified as a keeper of the law wherein men can boast over another. If one boasts of keeping the sabbath, then they have to keep the whole law but no one was keeping the old covenant and that was why Jesus had to come.

John 7: 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

If we are to be witnesses of the Son by our faith in Jesus Christ as Our Saviour and Our Good Shepherd, then we cannot be a witness of a keeper of the law in regards to the Old Covenant to obtain righteousness.

To be a witness of the New Covenant, we can only declare our faith in Jesus Christ that HE will lead us and guide us in the way we ought to go.

That is a different between man's doing his best in keeping God's laws which is a religion, from what it is now: a reconciled relationship based on trust as it God's turn to enable us to live as His by faith.



Then you have yet to receive the meat regarding what He had spoken of regarding Himself as being Lord over the sabbath because the character of all saints is having love for one another while the identity of all the saints is by faith in Jesus Christ.



You have yet to rest from the labour of keeping the sabbath in order to be His. The point here is that you are His simply by the fact that you believe in Jesus.



But if you seek justification by it, are you ready to be judged as one that kept it?

Isaiah 58:13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Have you shopped on the sabbath or have eaten out in a restaurant or have gone to a movie, relying on others to work on the sabbath? Have you relied on services that would not be otherwise available to you on the sabbath like the internet providers or even the telephone company?

Are you really keeping the sabbath? Do you cause someone else to sin by justifying them for working on the sabbath when you take advantage of the services provided that would not otherwaise be available if everyone was keeping the sabbath...which I point out that Jesus said no one was as no one was keeping the law period.

I'm not trying to condemn you, sister. It's just that you are not really applying justification by faith in Jesus Christ if you seek to be justified by keeping the sabbath as well, thus voiding your faith in Jesus as being able to justify you apart from the law.



When you raised a standard of judgment for justification, apart from faith in Jesus Christ, you will get that because as you are judging, you will be judged.

I believe you are worrying out of this love for others, and sometimes you come across stressing that which will seem to be condemning others by.

Can a police officer have a say when he will work and not work? If everyone kept the sabbath, that means what? No police officer nor fire department, nor hospital nor ambulance services available?

But one can defend that by saying that their jobs is showing love for one another.

But what of businesses for those that need something: baby diapers, baby's milk, or just milk for themselves, medicine, or some more band aids?

They could defend themselves by saying we are showing love for those that may be in desperate need.

What of restaurants and movies and entertainment services for the homes?

Is it there we can raise the finger and say.. ahah! We now have a clear path to condemn. But is it really? What of the shut ins? What of those that are home bound by injuries or illnesses?

What a slippery slope.

That is why no one was keeping the sabbath before and why no one is doing it really now... as we look to Jesus Christ for our justification by faith alone.




Then we must remember the fading of the Old Covenant if we are to be witnesses of the New. We cannot do both. Either we are in a religion of man's effort and will in seeking to be justified by keeping the law, or we are in a relationship of trust by faith in Jesus Christ as we get to know Him when we take Him at His word that we can rest in Him that we are His as we live our lives by faith in following Him in loving others.



Psalm 100: 3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Micah 6: 7Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? 9The LORD's voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.



We cannot walk in the religious flesh either. Either recognize what the Lod has done and humbly walk before Him by faith in Jesus Christ or not.

1 Corinthians 3:21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.



Because your reference to Matthew 5:8 is fulfilled in 1 John 3:3.



Again, the Old Covenant decayeth, and waxeth old, ready to vanish and did in light of the New Covenant as God will write the laws on our hearts. We do not write the laws on our hearts. God said He will do it and accomplish that which man failed to achieve by the deeds of the law in identifying themselves as His.



If you are under the Ten commandments, then you are under the law. It is on you to seek justification and acceptance from God in doing so.



If you wish to be identified with God as per the Old Covenant, then you do so to your error.



1 John 3:22-24 is from the Book of 1 John where you got 1 John 5:3 from. John would not be negligent in telling his readers what those commandments were.



No. There is no mention in 1 John of the listing of the Ten commandments to re enforce the keeping of the sabbath day.



See? You aquainted spiritual Israel by keeping the Ten commandments and not by faith in Jesus Christ.

Failure to see the New Covenant as the Old Covenant vanishes away is what's happening here. May the Lord Jesus Christ as the Truth set you free.

And may you keep the sabbath because you want to and not because you have to as you declare your faith that it is Jesus Christ that justifies you. That is humbly walking before your God in what He has done.
God Bless you Enow...I cannot say anything more than what I have already said that would convince you....we'll just have to agree to disagree...

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

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Old 07-13-2010, 10:31 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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The Purpose of Ten Commandments ..... was refered to and part of "The law". The purpose of the law was to:

1. increase trespasses against God.

Galatians 3:19
What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions .....
Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase....

2. To be used as a mirror....a "two way" mirror

One way: to show us our accountability to God, to silence every mouth and at some point, all will be forced to look into this mirror.
    • Romans 3:19
      Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Second way: to show us our need for a Savior.


3. God will uses the mirror And what will God see...?
  • For those who are under the law:
    • God see's
      • Anybody who doesn't believe in the Savior that He provided...God will call that person a "liar"
      • God see's as "naked", "unrighteous", "not dressed in wedding clothes", " not covered by the blood of the Lamb" "
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.
1 John 4:20
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar.
1 John 5:10
.... Anyone who does not believe, God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
  • For those who aren't under the law
    • God will see:
      • faith ... Anybody who believes in the Savior that He provided...God will call that person a " a son "
      • Christ's righteousness
      • Christ's perfection
      • "wedding clothes"
      • "the blood of the lamb"
Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Last edited by twin.spin; 07-13-2010 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
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Good post, twin.

The Law is the standard to which we cannot attain - Christian or not, we will fail in our fleshly attempts to keep that which is holy (Rom 7:12). Only the life of Christ can fulfill the Law - and indeed, He has fulfilled it - we only need to let Him live His life through us.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
The purpose of the ten commandments as given was so that the people of Israel would know Who their God that delivered them in representing Him.

Exodus 20:1And God spake all these words, saying, 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Then the ten commandments followed. The importance of the fourth commandment was to testify of Him as the God, the Creator.

Exodus 20:8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Every Jew as identified by the laws in defining the nation of Israel could be stoned to death for working on the sabbath because that was not representing the God that delivered them.

Exodus 31:14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

It was worth bearing repeating:

Exodus 35:2Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

The one thing we have to consider is why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 12: 1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Again:

Mark 2: 23And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. 24And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luke 6:1And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. 2And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? 3And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him; 4How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? 5And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

It is obvious that these three accounts is of the same incident and as each disciple gives their testimony of His words, it is on God to help us understand why Jesus is being Lord of the sabbath and not the sabbath being lord over man.

Jesus Christ is Lord over us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
Great post Enow! You said it all.

What I always find puzzling is the zealousness some Christians show toward the 10 Commandments when, for example, there is some challenge to having them displayed on public grounds. Now, I'm not personally offended by them, but I'm not going to get up in arms to keep them on the courthouse lawn or anything. They are of interest to me in the historical sense only. Jewish laws of ancient times represent historical origins of my living faith. But the commandments I follow are from Christ, as Enow described brilliantly above. If those 2 commandments were carved in stone and displayed on the courthouse lawn, I might get upset if someone tried to remove them, but alas, the only two important commandments don't get much air time, do they?

Interesting trivia: Did you know that in the 1050's, Cecil B. DeMille, director of The Ten Commandments, was involved in placing a few hundred of the monuments around the country to help promote his movie? That seems really inappropriate to me, kind of like money changers in the temple!
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Good post, twin.

The Law is the standard to which we cannot attain - Christian or not, we will fail in our fleshly attempts to keep that which is holy (Rom 7:12). Only the life of Christ can fulfill the Law - and indeed, He has fulfilled it - we only need to let Him live His life through us.
Amidst all contentions...my soul trusts in these,"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another".
John 13:34-35

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

These are like cymbals keeping awake and guiding my faith!

Blessings...
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
The purpose of the ten commandments as given was so that the people of Israel would know Who their God that delivered them in representing Him.


Exodus 31:14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

It was worth bearing repeating:

Exodus 35:2Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.



Jesus Christ is Lord over us.
The Lord God did Not prophecy the words of Exodus 31:14, and Exodus 35:2 for these were the Judgement of Moses and he alone ..... You need proof well give me examples of People who the Lord God put to death in your Church for working of the Sabbath.....You probably dont have any, therefor this a sin created by man and NOT God
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The Lord God did Not prophecy the words of Exodus 31:14, and Exodus 35:2 for these were the Judgement of Moses and he alone ..... You need proof well give me examples of People who the Lord God put to death in your Church for working of the Sabbath.....You probably dont have any, therefor this a sin created by man and NOT God
You will probably have to reread the OP again since I was not teaching the keeping of the sabbath.

The reasons for those references was to stress how important it was in the Old Covenant and yet in referencing Jesus's words regarding the sabbath, those trying to condemn the disciples for picking the corn to eat were ignoring the One that was greater than the Temple because they would not have tried to condemn the guiltless and thereby.. declaring that the Son of man is also Lord over the sabbath.

It is because of Jesus Christ, no one can judge a believer for not keeping the sabbath as it is His righteousness that we are justified by and thus we belong to the Lord's.

The identity of keeping the sabbath as God's people fadeth away to being identified by faith in Jesus Christ as God's people.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: New England
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Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.Including sabbath keepers .

Why does He silence the whole world and held it accountable ?

32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

I implore all you Fundy's to quit boasting in your own faith and formula's and times of refreshing will come to you.

Last edited by pcamps; 07-15-2010 at 07:41 PM..
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