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There isn't a single document written by human beings that is inerrant (or infallible) . . . so to ascribe such attributes to the bible is patently absurd and ludicrous on its face. It requires magic-believers and those who deny an undeniable reality.
It is okay for anyone to question the Bible, but to ascribe to the issue of inerrancy or the lack thereof is a cop out when one cannot find the answers they seek. Sometimes the answers are right there in front of us, and we just need the Lord's help in finding it, and understanding it.
I believe God's words have been kept by those that loved Him and His words at Antioch from which the Textus Receptus came from that the King James Bible was translated from. I believe this to be containing the meat of God's words as in the true meaning for believers to use for discerning good and evil.
As for the inerrancy charge, only God can show that His word is inerrant. Any seeker or believer that is trying to understand the inerrancy of God's words has yet to be revealed by the Lord of it. No one can tell another that His word is inerrant at face value. That is something every person will know in their own time and place as revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is okay for anyone to question the Bible, but to ascribe to the issue of inerrancy or the lack thereof is a cop out when one cannot find the answers they seek. Sometimes the answers are right there in front of us, and we just need the Lord's help in finding it, and understanding it.
I believe God's words have been kept by those that loved Him and His words at Antioch from which the Textus Receptus came from that the King James Bible was translated from. I believe this to be containing the meat of God's words as in the true meaning for believers to use for discerning good and evil.
As for the inerrancy charge, only God can show that His word is inerrant. Any seeker or believer that is trying to understand the inerrancy of God's words has yet to be revealed by the Lord of it. No one can tell another that His word is inerrant at face value. That is something every person will know in their own time and place as revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Enow...no offense...but you have no clue what you are speaking about here. The Textus Receptus is one of the most corrupt versions out there...it has been proven to be extremely corrupt. Please take some time to actually study the ancient origins of religious beliefs/myths and the actual origins of the bible itself...it will help you greatly in not providing false information to the populace.
The Christian sub-forum has been making the mods work way too hard. We should stick to the subject and post what we believe and why.
This reminds me of something from years ago.I used to have a co-worker/friend who umpired adult softball in the evenings.When I started playing for my church in the church league my umpire friend made a comment that the league he hated to ump most was the church league,because the players were so arrogant and argumentative,and got into more fights and did more name calling than what we called the beer league (Coors,Bud,etc all sponsored teams).I got to watching and comparing,and sure enough,the church league was far worse.I finally quit after 2 seasons because I couldn't stand to see the way the guys on my own team (FBC) acted.Just took all the fun out of it.
I've always remembered the impression that friend of mine got from watching Christians interact in real life outside the church walls.And this place reminds me of the same thing.
Enow...no offense...but you have no clue what you are speaking about here. The Textus Receptus is one of the most corrupt versions out there...it has been proven to be extremely corrupt. Please take some time to actually study the ancient origins of religious beliefs/myths and the actual origins of the bible itself...it will help you greatly in not providing false information to the populace.
I am not offended, but seeing how you and I are not like-minded in Christ, I can't really take what you have said at face value.
I have done enough research and the Bible itself supports the keeping of His words by the disciples that loved Him and His words at Antioch.
So I have to say it is you that do not know what you are talking about. Looking to secular resources in the world in debunking the Bible is not the way to go, sister.
It is God seeking to reconcile us to Himself through the Son so that means He is ministering as He is the One drawing men unto the Son to be saved. You make it as if God is out of reach and that it is on man to utilized all the resources in the world to find God and the truth, keeping in mind that the Bible is not a valid source because it was copied off of other cultures.
Pumpernickels and horse swaggering!
Does any of the other cultures have an actual crossing of the Red Sea where chariot wheels and skeletal rib cages have been found covered with coral formations at the bottom of this crossing? Did King Solomon not placed a pillar commemorating the site of the crossing on both sides?
Does any of the culture have the place of origin where their "ten commandments" came from as the real Mt. Sinaia has a blackened mountaintop as if from fervent heat and with evidence of Israel's sin of idolatry at the base of this mountain??
I am beginning to see all this nayasayers' efforts by the world is nothing short of what they are doing on the internet: a deflection. It should not be alien to you in what the world has been doing, let alone, what they are still doing right now.
I am not offended, but seeing how you and I are not like-minded in Christ, I can't really take what you have said at face value.
I have done enough research and the Bible itself supports the keeping of His words by the disciples that loved Him and His words at Antioch.
So I have to say it is you that do not know what you are talking about. Looking to secular resources in the world in debunking the Bible is not the way to go, sister.
It is God seeking to reconcile us to Himself through the Son so that means He is ministering as He is the One drawing men unto the Son to be saved. You make it as if God is out of reach and that it is on man to utilized all the resources in the world to find God and the truth, keeping in mind that the Bible is not a valid source because it was copied off of other cultures.
Pumpernickels and horse swaggering!
Does any of the other cultures have an actual crossing of the Red Sea where chariot wheels and skeletal rib cages have been found covered with coral formations at the bottom of this crossing? Did King Solomon not placed a pillar commemorating the site of the crossing on both sides?
Does any of the culture have the place of origin where their "ten commandments" came from as the real Mt. Sinaia has a blackened mountaintop as if from fervent heat and with evidence of Israel's sin of idolatry at the base of this mountain??
I am beginning to see all this nayasayers' efforts by the world is nothing short of what they are doing on the internet: a deflection. It should not be alien to you in what the world has been doing, let alone, what they are still doing right now.
It is not just "secular" sources Enow...if you'd take the time to actually study it, you'd already know. I won't comment on the rest because it would take much too long and be completely off topic, but I suggest you study the ancient origins of religious beliefs and the bible, ancient archeology, ancient astrotheology, ancient mythology, ancient comparative religions, etc...it will require that you critically examine what you've been taught by others without bias...I think you will be mighty surprised at what you find regarding what you've posted above.
It is okay for anyone to question the Bible, but to ascribe to the issue of inerrancy or the lack thereof is a cop out when one cannot find the answers they seek. Sometimes the answers are right there in front of us, and we just need the Lord's help in finding it, and understanding it.
I believe God's words have been kept by those that loved Him and His words at Antioch from which the Textus Receptus came from that the King James Bible was translated from. I believe this to be containing the meat of God's words as in the true meaning for believers to use for discerning good and evil.
As for the inerrancy charge, only God can show that His word is inerrant. Any seeker or believer that is trying to understand the inerrancy of God's words has yet to be revealed by the Lord of it. No one can tell another that His word is inerrant at face value. That is something every person will know in their own time and place as revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ.
As I said in another thread, my brother . . . we are at different places in our walk with Christ so we are not on the same wavelength. What you call "meat" or truth is definitely in the scriptures . . . but the current readings and interpretations of it are badly corrupted. They are NOT inerrant. The centrality of Jesus is undisputed . . . but the OT corruptions have been perpetuated in ignorance through the centuries and they undermine Jesus and His message and example of agape love.
This thread was thought of while reading a post talking about secret codes within the genealogy of Jesus.The subject seemed to deserve more than just a buried post in another thread.
The issue is this.The genealogy in Matthew is wrong.On 2 accounts.
First,it leaves out direct descendants from Abraham to Jesus.Compare Mt 1:1 to 1 Chron 3:10-16.Matthew leaves entire generations of direct father to son descendants out while trying to achieve a mystical number of 42 generations to Jesus.Specifically,start comparing Mt 1:9 with 1 Chron 3:11. 3 generations are skipped,apparently intentionally.So why would God need to dictate to Matthew to leave out 3 generations to get the magical 42 generations?He could have made sure there was only 42 generations instead of having to tell Matthew to just leave out a few and hope no one notices.
Second,Matthew's count is wrong.Mt 1:1 does not even contain the 42 generations he is striving for.It has 41.Count them yourself.It's a pretty safe bet that if God were dictating Scripture to Matthew as so many literalists believe that He would get the count right.
Now,this thread is not a bash the Bible thread.Nor is it a bash the literalists thread.It is simply a thread bringing up the obvious problems of an inerreant Bible in light of the issues of Mt 1:1. If the ability to discuss this without insults,judgements on the Christianity of others,or other personal attacks and namecalling is beyond anyone,then please,let the adults discuss this.Adults who have the capacity to discuss the subject at hand without resorting to attacks as a substitute for having anything substantive to say on the issue.
So how is Matthew without error in light of these issues?
The bible is Jewish text, written mainly by Jewish men. Clearly there is a poetry involved with the text of the bible. Translated into english with the omission of the Jewish Culture removes the apparantness of the poetry. Can the bible be true and poetic? Yes! In the semetic poetry finds value in repetitions or things of numerical value. The same is the case with Matthew.
The missing lineages may be missing because Matthew did not know of them. Matthews lack of knowing the complete lineage is not in error since the bible truthfully reccords it. So, the bible is true since it was written to truely reveal what Matthew knew of the history of the lineage of Christ.
Further he says 14 generations to the carrying away to babylon, and latter from the carrying away unto babylon to... So this generation is repeated twice. He did not lie and the bible remains truthful. Matthew just counted the generation twice. So is he wrong? No, because he says what he did. Is the bible in error for including the geneologies this way? No, because we know it is poetry and a semetic form to write this way and relate facts to increments of numbers in the ancient Jewish culture.
So, lifertexan, in your attempt to find error in the bible has only revealed the culture of the ancient Jewish people as found in their writting style.
No there are 42 generation of BLESSED spiritual fathers of Christ from Abraham to Jesus, But you must add Jesus as a Spiritual father of Chritianity to get 42...... see From Adam to Noah in Genesis 5:3-32.......See from Genesis 11:10-32 From Noahs son Shem who Noah blessed only, to Abraham...... Only One son each was blessed to the Lord to be the Spiritual father of Jesus Christ.... From Matthew 1;1-17.... Abraham to Jesus were only One son each was to be blessed to the Lord as a Spiritual Father of Jesus Christ........ See there were Spiritual Father and there human seed never gave birth to Jesus, like Mary and Joseph human seed never gave him life , the Holy Spirit put Jesus into Mary as a saraget mother and Joseph was a Spiritual Father......... the sons of King David in 1 Chronicles 3:11 were not all blessed as a Spiritual Father of Jesus, only Solomon was to be blessed of King David not the other sons..........NOTE: also the study of so called mystical numberalogy of christianity is not of Heaven , the study there is NO revelation from Holy Spirit for this the spiritual authority of a fallen angel called sophia who rules over theosophy of the seven liberal arts.....
1 Kings 10:14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents (666) of gold.
1 Kings 11:6And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went NOT fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
9 and the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was TURNED FROM THE LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice.
11Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and statutes, which I have commanded thee, I WILL SURELY REND THE KINGDOM FROM THEE, AND WILL GIVE IT TO THY SERVANT.
Thus, the change in Luke's (the physician) genealogy 3:31 as opposed to Matthew's genealogy 1:6-7
The missing lineages may be missing because Matthew did not know of them. Matthews lack of knowing the complete lineage is not in error since the bible truthfully reccords it. So, the bible is true since it was written to truely reveal what Matthew knew of the history of the lineage of Christ.
I don't think you will get much argument out of the fallible bible crowd about this post. Most agree that the bible truthfully contains the errors of those who were ignorant of all the facts.
When 10 independent journalists were sent to report WWII as a war as well as the death tolls of the battles in World War II. What do you expect from them.
1) They reported reliably only if all 10 agents came with the exact same figure?
2) The opposite, since it is impossible for them all to report the same death toll number that if they all came with the same exact number, they could be lying by copying from each other.
Moreover, in weighing history which is reported by historians, there are other things which much more important than the death tolls.
Similarly, in history the Jews were undergoing alot of adversary events, being enslaved, involved in wars, being captive and put to an exile and etc. While they have a whole sect of people (say, the Pharisees) to record the main events into their Laws and Prophets, there were no dedicated teams of people to write down the genealogies. Actually, it is impossible for anyone to write down an accurate geneology about an unknown carpenter.
God picks up the already most accurate one as a testimony that Jesus is a descendant of David. At the same time, the Bible also warned that don't make much fuss about the Jews genealogy.
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