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Originally Posted by twin.spin
Yes, salvation isn't a choice rather we are chosen however that in and of itself needs to be understood correctly.
According to scriptures people can and do refuse to repent or reject his mercy. It's unfortunate that people do it but they are going to recieve their due eternal punishment since they refused to believe that their sin was paid in full for them personally. The objective price paid by Jesus isn't what ultimatly saves, it is the subjective or lack thereof that ultimatly determines residency.
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More blatantly contradictory rhetoric ...
First Twin.Spin says that salvation is not a choice.
Then he says people can choose to reject salvation, which is the same thing as saying that people can choose to accept salvation and be saved.
And he continues to make the point that the reason why people will suffer for eternity is because they did not choose to be saved by accepting it.
Then he goes on to say that it is not the price which Christ paid that "ultimately" saves us, but instead its our choice to be saved or to not be saved by accepting or rejecting salvation that "ultimately" saves us or damns us.
Some people cant tell if they are coming or going ... Wow.
Quote:
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There is no scripture clearer than John 3:36, Matthew 25:41 that annihilation or the "all" argument will not be the option for those on Jesus' left.
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John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.
Indeed, its pretty clear, but you don't seem to understand the above scripture in the least.
The apostle Paul Rejected Christ, and he ended up seeing life, didn't he? And the wrath of God no longer remained on him even though he rejected Christ earlier in his life.
Why?
Because later he confessed Christ was lord to the glory of the father, just like everybody who will ever live will one do one day.
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers
Indeed, the above scripture is also perfectly clear. But again it is apparent that you do not understand it.
So instead of ripping the verse out of Context, lets see it in context shall we?
Matthew 25:31-41
And
whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory; and
gathered together before him shall be all the nations,
and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats, and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left. 'Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me; naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me. 'Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink? and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around? and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee? And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did it to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did it. Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers
Now this is were most Christian get mixed up. They infer that this passage of scripture is speaking about the final judgment after the resurrection of the dead, but that is not what this passage is talking about. It is talking about the judgment of those who are left alive among the nations at the time of Christ return, at the beginning of the reign of Christ on earth. This passage has nothing to do with the judgment of the dead.
And finally, the fire that is prepared for the devil and his angels is also misunderstood, as is the lake of fire. The fire of Gods judgments is the unquenchable fire of his jealous love for all people. And the purpose for it is the eventual purification of all those who are so judged, just as the sons of Levi and all the wicked and unbelieving will be judged by fire on the day of his coming and will be purified like gold and silver.
Sgs 8:6-7
Place me like a seal over your heart,
like a seal on your arm;
for
love is as strong as death,
its jealousy unyielding as the grave.
It burns like blazing fire,
like a mighty flame.
Many waters
cannot quench love;
rivers cannot wash it away.
Mal 3:2-5
But
who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For
he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver;
he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the LORD, as in days gone by, as in former years. “
So I will come near to you for judgment.
I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,†says the LORD Almighty.
So we see, it is plainly written above, that on the day of lord, God will come close and judge not only the sons of Levi (who are even now in outer darkness having been cut off
Mat 8:12) so that Jerusalem and Judah will be acceptable to the lord once again, but also to do the same for all sorcerers, adulterers, perjurers, those who defraud others, those who oppress others, those who deprive others, and those who do not fear him.
The above passage clearly states that the purpose of Gods fiery judgment of Israel and all the wicked and unbelieving is for purification as one purifies Gold and silver in fire, and in order to make them righteous and acceptable before God.
The truth is, many Christian simply don't want to believe this is true, though they pretend like they would be happy if it were ... One day they will really be happy that it is true, especially when they realize that they are the ones who are being judged by the fire of God ...
Peace ...
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the Bible is very clear on the issue of God's hatred for the wicked, but it is also clear that He has given all men common grace and a type of love. Because God's love and hatred are quite different than ours it's a difficult topic to understand, but I think that with God's grace and guidance through His word, the answer can be unraveled.
