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Well, I certainly do not believe in any of the gods and have no belief in Heaven either, but, any man who says they don't believe in hell has never tried to live with my first wife.
Please call me deistic skeptics. I think that there is a God, but I am skeptical about most information we think we have about him/her. I don't believe in afterlife, but I don't deny the possibility.
I hope my position is more clear now
Then you had better get on the ball and come to the realization that God has revealed Himself in His written Word, just as in times past He revealed Himself through prophets, dreams, visions, angelic teaching, and direct communication with man. Your opportunity to be saved runs out when God ends your time on this earth. Once the window of opportunity to believe in Christ runs out, your eternal future is set and cannot be altered. If you die without receiving Christ as Savior you will be separated from God forever.
If you're interested, here is a good source of basic Bible doctrine. Set aside your skepticism and listen. Again, if you're interested.
Let me try to put it this way in simple terms, Mike:
-You said people are responsible for going to Hell themselves. Okay, I support personal responsibility
-Therefore God is right to send people to hell, because it's entirely their damn fault
-You also claim that it is possible for one man to sway another. That demolishes justification for hell, because it's not solely your fault if others are involved.
In this, the devils world, there is a saturation of cosmic doctrines designed to deceive. But even in the Millennal kingdom when Satan is locked away and unable to deceive, men will still reject Christ as Savior even though He is personally on the earth ruling from the throne of David. In the world with all of its deceptive doctrines, each man is solely responsible for what he believes. Each man is responsible his thoughts, motives, and actions. What is in the heart of a person will determine how he responds or reacts to the lies of cosmos diabolicus. Each person must and will bear the responsibility for what he believes.
I'll tell you one more thing: Other people (Muslims and Zoroastrians for example) have plenty of 'prophets, dreams, visions, angelic teaching, and direct communication' and what not. Are their visions from devil? How do we sort it out? There is no easy answer, but I think that doctrines that work are the ones most likely to be from God. And here's the thing: fundamentalism doesn't work.
-99% of scientists are not fundamentalists, thought many (not most) are religious. And their achievements are of enormous use to everyone, including you. Foundations of computing where made by Alan Turing, a non-believer.
-Alcoholic Anonymous is not fundamentalist; They just tell you to believe in higher power, without any specific. And it helped thousands.
-bigotry and zealotry got a lot of people killed. Read 'On the Jews and Their Lies' by Martin Luther. Do I have to go into what Muslim fundamentalists are doing to people?
So whatever is of God, extremist theology isn't. Moderation and degree of tolerance work wonders.
God may or may not be the author of Bible. Even if he is, he may disagree with your interpretation of Bible. But God IS the author of real world so if some book (or interpretation of it) doesn't work in real world, then it os unlikely that it is the truth.
Sheol, commonly called "hell" is the tempory holding places, which are "hollows" deep in the earth.
They are made for: #1 the fallen, chained angels, who are kept chained in the lowest Sheol, and 90% of the most wicked demon spirits -disembodied offspring of the fallen angels- are bound there, since Noah prayed for his descendants who were extremely tormented by them, after the flood, as pr the ancient writings. Those are the ones who will be released in the Tribulation period, to torment the inhabitants of earth even more, in afflictions, for seven months.
#2 all slain Adam souls, slain in unrighteousness, who were righteous and who cried for requiting of their blood, from Abel's slaying, to the time of the cross, at the Atonement, which is when their blood was requited. #3 all Adam souls who have not come to repentance in their lives and who died with their sins not blotted out of the Book of Deeds, who are in torments. #4 the righteous, redeemed souls of earth, before the Atonement, who waited for the Day of Atonement.
#2 and #4 are empty, since Jesus requited the blood of the slain righteous before the cross, and ascended and "led captivity captive"; emptying those two hollows/sheols of the souls held there.
"Hades", a Greek name "coined" from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which in Hebrew means a male prostitute, esp a temple prostitute, signifying/ an omen of the eternal destruction [uselessness of purpose for those cast there] in the Lake of fire for all who follow the example of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain. Hades was "coined" in exactly the same manner that the word Babble was coined from the destruction of the "Tower of Bab-el" which means gate of God; but Babble signifies the judgment of the confounded tongue of the race of Adam at the tower of the Adam race, supposing to enter God's gate and overthrow His City, while Hades signifies the judgment of the damned, who follow the fallen angels, or who follow the transgressors of Sodom and gommorah.
We have many coined words, all based in the mother tongue. Sodomy is coined from the name of a man, Sodom, who founded the city of Sodom, as Gonorrea is coined from another man's name, who founded Gommorah.
[http://www.speakingbible.com/jasher/B01C010.htm
10:25 And four men from the family of Ham went to the land of the plain; these are the names of the four men, Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim.]
Lake of Fire is the absolute Abyss of the outer darkness, where there is no Light of God for those in it, forever, and those cast there suffer the blackness of darkness forever, with no remedy for morphosing into the image of the Son of God, any "Adam worms" cast out, to that place; and no getting out of it and seeing any Light of God the Great Glory, in the face of the Son of Man who is God the Great Glory come in flesh, nor for being a bearer of that Glory and shining with it, for all eternity.
Jud 1:7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
In Genesis 14, when Moses was relating the war of the 4 kings, in league with "am -rapha-el [the coined name for Nimrod], he details their journey by the place which was, already, in Moses' day, called "En-mishpat = "spring of judgment" qadesh/ male prostitute/unclean =Hades".
Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 10-25-2010 at 11:44 AM..
If he is above logic, then he might be above telling truth to people, too. What if he is deceiving you? What if he uses Bible as a tool to deceive people?
It is not that God is above logic. By His nature, He is absolutely logical. God confounds man's attempt to use logic to deny His existance.
God does not deceive. He is perfect in His character and cannot decieve. Nor has He any need to deceive. He is absolute sovereignty, and is omnipotent. God doesn't get His kicks by deceiving His own creation.
Quote:
How do you know he is not a perfect liar?
Same answer as above.
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So God is bigger than anyone can possibly imagine but he revealed the truth to you? You are the one to be laughed at.
God is truth. And He has revealed who and what He is, and what His plan is, in His written word. Those who want to know the truth have only to receive it. But those who don't desire the truth will simplly reject it.
Quote:
If I where Satan, I would have written the Bible, probably. Why not?
Satan has made every attempt to destroy the Bible. He has failed.
I think I have spent enough time on this with you. It is your responsibility to recognize the truth. It is right in front of you. All you need to do is open your eyes to it. Listen to those basic doctrine lessons I provided. Or don't. It is up to you.
I'll try and read the links you provided. Thank you.
It is only fair I give you some links in return. This is catholic geologist, and has some ideas: Science, Pseudoscience, and Irrationalism
Look at his Science and Religion section.
And you are right that we should probably stop for now, as we are just arguing in circles here. See you later.
Mike i take it you were in the some people that wanted the truth , this thought is totally alien to me , has i never knowingly wanted the truth i didn't even know what it was , yet what i did discover was God was drawing me to Himself, just like the deer pants for water so my soul longed after Him , the Holy Spirit was drawing me to the water of life,i have no doubt whatsoever this was the Lord accomplishing what He desires
God does not always get what He desires. Did God desire men to sin? Did he desire them to sin to a point where he regretted even creating them? Did he desire to drown them in the flood? No, men's free will often goes against God's desire.
The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.
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