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But fear is a negative emotion, contrary to love which is positive in nature. As the scripture saith:
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has torment, and he that fears has not been made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)
So we see that fear is the opposite - or enemy - of perfect love, so how can fear be the driving force to God, who is love? It cannot be the source of a person's relationship with God, for if they are driven by fear then God has not been revealed in truth to them.
yes I've been saying this for awhile now...there is no fear in Jesus.don't worry about things,such as that your loved ones will be 'left behind' or that you won't be good enough to be raptured (if there is one;I'm on the fence..).some ppl torment themselves with such things,and also wonder if their loved ones are in hell...but there is no fear in Jesus,so to torment oneself wondering about these things is completely unnecessary.
meerkat, it must be me but I just can't wrap my brain around the concept that "many" is interchangeable with "all". "many" is 35-50%; "majority" (though I know it is not in the bible) is 51-99%; "all" is 100%. I just can't get past that.
Thrillobyte
Do you have esword on your computer --- the greek word that we have interpreted as many is also translated as great ---- "the many" refers to a great number which happens to be all........
Also, it seems to me that the 2 verses of Romans 5:18-19 are joined together and talking about the same "many" (great number of people) in one verse it says all (the greek word pas) and the next verse says "many" (greek word polus)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I look at it this way....in a way that we humans can relate to.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Let's say a dictator was ruling a country, and he was a terrible person, like a Hitler or worse. The USA decides to nuke him, and by nuking him they wipe out the whole country.
Kinda like what we did to those cities in Japan. Were ALL the people there guilty? No! But they were killed collaterally. So by the offence of a few, or one,,,many were judged.
With me thus far?
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
This verse is applicable to only those who were part of the country that was targeted. If the people are fore-warned, then they could escape and live. Or, if they saw their leader acting in a way that was not in accordance with basic human rights, then the option is to leave. "Come out of her".
In the case of the Japanese, there were many who left the country. These peope survived. They were justified in their actions, and thus they lived.
So, it is like this. Being Japanese made them guilty of the crimes of Pearl Harbor. Leaving Japan freed them of this guilt of association, so judgement escaped them.
The Covenants work this way to.
ALL were made sinners by the Law. Having known the Law, and the realization of being a sinner, then all CAN BE made righteous, THROUGH Jesus Christ ALONE, who was perfect and obedient.
Does this mean ALL are already made righteous, or must they leave,,well anything?
I believe we still must "come out of her", and the "her" is the worldy-systems that rule this world. Otherwise, judgement will fall,,,hard and without prejudice.
So, we can escape. But escape only comes by and through Jesus Christ alone, who is Life. Otherwise total death awaits.
thrill - then is it only 35-50% of the people who were made sinners?
The trick to understanding this is just as meerkat said: many does not specify "all" or "less-than-all". It specifies a large amount. That large amount can be all. Consider:
There are many people in the world.
Which people in the world is this statement referring to? ALL of them! There are many!
Get it?
Many does not specify "all" or "less-than-all".
Consider a hypothetical universe where God only created 3 people. God then sends Jesus to save them all. In this hypothetical world, Jesus came to save few. Yet Jesus will save all 3 of them, but 3 is quite few relative to our universe.
Few/many can refer to the all. (though admittedly "few" is usually not referring to all - but it can be, which illustrates the point with "many").
I could probably trick my brain into accepting the concept by adding "the" if front of many. Hence "the many" = all ---- that sort of thing. But I'm just too literal a person, I suppose and "many" will always represent less than 100% eg "many people in America do not have health insurance" = not all people in America have health insurance.
But Paul knew how to use the word, "all", so why did he have to use "many" when he meant "all"? To confuse the reader?
I look at it this way....in a way that we humans can relate to.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Let's say a dictator was ruling a country, and he was a terrible person, like a Hitler or worse. The USA decides to nuke him, and by nuking him they wipe out the whole country.
Kinda like what we did to those cities in Japan. Were ALL the people there guilty? No! But they were killed collaterally. So by the offence of a few, or one,,,many were judged.
With me thus far?
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
This verse is applicable to only those who were part of the country that was targeted. If the people are fore-warned, then they could escape and live. Or, if they saw their leader acting in a way that was not in accordance with basic human rights, then the option is to leave. "Come out of her".
In the case of the Japanese, there were many who left the country. These peope survived. They were justified in their actions, and thus they lived.
So, it is like this. Being Japanese made them guilty of the crimes of Pearl Harbor. Leaving Japan freed them of this guilt of association, so judgement escaped them.
The Covenants work this way to.
ALL were made sinners by the Law. Having known the Law, and the realization of being a sinner, then all CAN BE made righteous, THROUGH Jesus Christ ALONE, who was perfect and obedient.
Does this mean ALL are already made righteous, or must they leave,,well anything?
I believe we still must "come out of her", and the "her" is the worldy-systems that rule this world. Otherwise, judgement will fall,,,hard and without prejudice.
So, we can escape. But escape only comes by and through Jesus Christ alone, who is Life. Otherwise total death awaits.
What a coincidence! I'm writing a short book on the verses above!
And my message is basically this: God condemned all mankind through Adam. And then He justified all mankind through Jesus Christ! So, our life is hid in Christ, and we ALL are called to put Him (the new man) on.
I don't agree with the idea that one "must realize that they are sinners." Christendom through the ages has already done enough to bash it into our heads that we are sinners.
God now sees mankind as justified. That means everyone, whether they like it or not. We were put in Adam, now He has put us in Christ. We love Him because He loved us and gave Himself for us that we might live in Him.
I could probably trick my brain into accepting the concept by adding "the" if front of many. Hence "the many" = all ---- that sort of thing. But I'm just too literal a person, I suppose and "many" will always represent less than 100% eg "many people in America do not have health insurance" = not all people in America have health insurance.
But Paul knew how to use the word, "all", so why did he have to use "many" when he meant "all"? To confuse the reader?
Thrillobyte -- these words are not english words of all and many ---- the greek word that is translated as many is also translated as great, it has the meaning of size and not of an actual quantity that is less than all.
Thrillobyte -- these words are not english words of all and many ---- the greek word that is translated as many is also translated as great, it has the meaning of size and not of an actual quantity that is less than all.
Yes, which is why I say the blockheads who translated these greek text never took into consideration how modern man would read and, most importantly, interpret them. Let's assume UR is the correct doctrine. If I say, "Don't worry, meerkat, many of your loved ones will escape the burning fires of hell," your first reaction is, "Well, what about the others?" I say, "No worry, meerkat because the many will escape". Then you would be inclined to say, "But I want ALL of them to escape!! To which I retort, "But that's what I just said! The many will escape torment."
Yes, which is why I say the blockheads who translated these greek text never took into consideration how modern man would read and, most importantly, interpret them. Let's assume UR is the correct doctrine. If I say, "Don't worry, meerkat, many of your loved ones will escape the burning fires of hell," your first reaction is, "Well, what about the others?" I say, "No worry, meerkat because the many will escape". Then you would be inclined to say, "But I want ALL of them to escape!! To which I retort, "But that's what I just said! The many will escape torment."
See what confusion results from bad translations?
Thrillobyte this is where context comes in ........ the previous verse tells us that from the offense of one (Adam) all are condemned and by the righteousness of Christ all will be justified ---- however in other passages we see that not all are made righteous at the same time 1Co 15:22-28
and we also see that people will reap what they sow. Gal 6:7-8
God is testing peoples' faith, and only those who pass the test will receive eternal life. Annihilation makes perfect sense if only those who pass the test receive eternal life. What is the testing of your faith...?...
...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
From Genesis through Revelation, the Bible teaches that God tests His people in order to determine their faithfulness. In Genesis, God tested Adam and Eve..."And the Lord God COMMANDED the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU SHALT NOT EAT OF IT: for in the day that thou eatest thereof THOU SHALT SURELY DIE." (2:19) From this we can see that God tests His people by commanding certain things and then warns them of the consequences for disobedience. If they believe Him, they pass the test. If they refuse to obey, they fail the test and will be shut off from the tree of life for eternity...and this same pattern of testing is repeated throughout the history of God's people..."After these things God tested Abraham..." God tested Abraham's faith by commanding him to sacrifice that which was most precious to him...Abraham passed the test and reeived God's blessing.
The same false teaching of Modern Christianity that teaches Eternal Torment also teaches that Abraham was blessed because of his faith. The fact is, Abraham was not blessed for his faith, but rather for the obedience which his faith produced. The proof of that is seen in Genesis 22:18 when the angel of the Lord said to Abraham: "...BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE THIS, and have not withheld your son...I will indeed bless you, and I will mutiply your descendants as the stars of heaven...and by your descendants shall all the nations bless themselves, BECAUSE YOU HAVE OBEYED MY VOICE."
James used the example of Abraham when he insisted that faith without obedience is a dead faith, he said: "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is DEAD? Was not Abraham our father justified by works WHEN he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" (James 2:20) James was careful to emphasize that Abraham was justified WHEN he had offered Isaac. Yes, we are justified by our faith, but as James points out, that faith must be tested in order to receive eternal life. He wrote: "Blessed is the man who ENDURES trial, for when he has stood the TEST he will receive the CROWN OF LIFE which God has promised to those who LOVE HIM." (James 1:12) That one sentence contains the three facts necessary to understand theprocess of testing:
1. Christians must ENDURE TESTING.
2. Those who STAND THE TEST receive the CROWN OF LIFE.
3. The crown of life is promised to those who LOVE GOD.
How do we love God? John defines how to love God: "For this is the LOVE OF GOD that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS." (1 John 5:3)
Jesus was tested! While most of us will never be offered kingdoms for our disobedience, Satan does offer us worldly pleasures and rewards if we will follow him and commit sin by disobeying the commandments of God.
The good news is that even though we may be tempted to the limit of our strength, God does not permit Satan to test us beyond our ability to resist. Since we cannot be tested beyond our God-given ability to obey, if we disobey, our choice proves what is in our hearts. If we love God "with all our heart, all our mind and all our strength" we will choose to keep His commandments. If we love the world more than God we will choose to break God's commandments. It is just that simple.
The rich young ruler...he had a choice.. He asked Jesu, "What must I do to have eternal life?" Jesus answered him saying: "If you would enter life, keep the commandments...You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not stael, you shall notbear false witness..." (Matthew 19:17) Jesus exposed the covetousness in the rich young ruler's heart when He commanded him to sell all he had and give to the poor...the young ruler chose no to obey and failed the test.
Overcomers receive eternal life. "...To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of LIFE, which is in the paradise of God." (Rev. 2:7)
Study the very last blessing promised by Jesus as He ended the book of Revelation... "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates of the city..."
God Bless you too Illene Write.
In Christ's love,
Verna.
"Here is the endurance of the saints, those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of GOD...AND the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12.
Sorry Verna, didn't know until now that you had responded to my post. I will agree that God tests us, and sometimes we fail the test. But imo, and it's just that, my opinion, we get a second chance to pass the test, maybe not in this life but the next. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, the only thing that my heart and mind can accept. I believe there is enough biblical support for universal reconciliation and in my heart of hearts I know it to be the only truth. That doesn't mean I can't love you and have respect for your views, I do.
At least you don't believe in ET, and that's a great start in my book.
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To which I retort, "But that's what I just said! The many will escape torment." 
