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I think I may have "finally" just learned something. While I do like to discuss many topics and have opinions on most every thread posted here I feel like the Holy Spirit has finally taught me how to conduct myself here in the Christian forums. Satan is very tricky (and I'm not saying anything about any individual person here) and he loves it when Christians debate, disagree, and say "ANYTHING" that is in dispute with a brother or sister. It's things like this that make unbelievers turned off to God. There are so many very "subtle" posts that I read that stir up feelings in my heart and desperately tempt me into saying something either in defense of a belief I have or just downright dissagree with someone. But mostly I notice it flat out comes from pride. My flesh says... "you better defend your belief on this, you do want to help save people right?" But the Holy Spirit says, you would be much more productive for my Kingdom if you didn't say anything at all about it, casting out all pride, and only say things that would edify another believer. What were talking about here is a very tricky situation and it's soooo easy to get started and tripped up into this. There are also people I notice who, so it seems, who's only purpose in life is to debate. "You will know a tree by the fruit".
I'd like to challenge us all in being more productive for God and allow him to reveal his LOVE through us. This means, before you post anything at all, think, is this a contradiction to the above poster, or could these words fall right into an unproductive debate? I'm not saying to not post anything that would offend someone, because as we know many of our beliefs may offend someone. My challenge is for the other person, who may even be offended or in dissagreement, to not even so much as comment, ending the debate in it's tracks, and revealing the love of God. Even this thread is going to be offensive and it's going to fluster someone up to no end, but that's the way it goes. And if you post your dissagreement here, feel free, that's fine with me, but don't expect me to go along in debate. That's the challenge I'm talking about here. Also it's important to be creative with your encouragement and positive words.
Just imagine what this Christian forum would be like if we all challenged ourselves in this.
And lets see a poll response. If your closer to Yes, vote yes. If your closer to No, vote no. It doesn't have to be concrete.
We've had challenges and threads to do better but now we're being forced to do better, by way of supervision. Let's see what happens. I would like to see this forum get back to it's original roots from when I first found it in 2006. Actually, there wasn't anything but the Religion and Philosophy forum then. It started out pretty good but along the way certain "things" have come in and taken over from time to time, and not just the UR/ET debates. It's always going to be contentious like the Politics and other Controversies forum, there's just too many people with too many different beliefs. My wish would be to see some of the old posters come back and start posting again. Maybe they will now that we've gotten the smack-down and been told to straighten up. It's the only way, I'm afraid, that things were going to change.
If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.
Thanks. Right. But I believe that a thread shouldn't be closed just because it's controversial to someones beliefs. If someone gets on there and gets rude then the moderators should have the insight they need to discern the rudeness and warn the poster - not shut the thread down, because this is discrimination in my opinion and very unfair to the OP. It's giving the moderator permission to wipe out anything they themselves don't agree with. This also makes it possible for rude posters to have the thread shut down just because they get on there and post rude things. It's those people who should be disciplined, warned, and banned.
Also I'm not saying that debating is bad. But if you can't think before you post and make sure it's spoken in love then we shouldn't say anything at all.
Nothing but love
Well you know, I'm a Universalist and I haven't always been one......I was the worst kind of fundamentalist ETer anyone has ever seen. If it wasn't for the fact that City-Data allowed Universalists to post in the first place I would not have learned about this wonderful truth, although I had pretty much stopped believing in that torturous place we're not allowed to talk about anymore anyway. City-Data and the voice of the lonely universalists saved me from a wretched belief and brought an endless supply of joy into my life.
I'm just happy that Universalists have not been banned from C-D, like all of the other Christian sites. We just have to choose our words wisely and talk about the positives of our beliefs, not the negatives. Talk, argue, debate and what have you, it's still on the table. Just don't say [mod] "inappropriate words that violated the TOS" .
Please allow me to peacefully shake the dust off my feet, and say goodbye to the religion, philosophy, and Christianity section of the forum then.
Now I understand.
Whoa, wait.....what? You're going to leave just because I'm a Universalist or is there something I'm missing? You might want to look at your "testimony" thread before you leave.
Ilene, I didn't answer your question because I didn't want to give you the answer, Moderator cut: edit It has nothing to do with you, or you being a Universalist. I believe you are my sister, just as I believe your fellow Universalists are my brothers and sisters.
I just hope that you all are not held accountable for any "believer" who Christ says depart from me on that great day. As far as I know, you don't even believe in judgement day.
John 16:8 (New Living Translation)
8 And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment.
2 Peter 3 (New Living Translation)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.[a] 11 Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live, 12 looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames. 13 But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
Matthew 24 (New Living Translation)
37 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 38 In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. 39 People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.
Ilene, in obedience to Yahushua, I love you and your fellowship of believers but when I notice that you all are quick to discredit anyones message when they are trying to show people that there is a horrible judgment coming for those in disobedience to Christ I have to leave. I take it as... "we don't want to hear your message... leave please." And of course that's not the message I'm consumed with, as the love of God is, but repentance of sin is part of the Gospel. I don't feel the Holy Spirit is welcome here, and so I'd rather not post here. Like I said, in honor of the Blood of the Lamb, I love you all as brothers and sisters but I have nothing else to say.
When you have no conviction of sin, it's higly likely you have no Holy Spirit.
Ilene, I didn't answer your question because I didn't want to give you the answer, Moderator cut: orphaned reference It has nothing to do with you, or you being a Universalist. I believe you are my sister, just as I believe your fellow Universalists are my brothers and sisters.
I just hope that you all are not held accountable for any "believer" who Christ says depart from me on that great day. As far as I know, you don't even believe in judgement day.
John 16:8 (New Living Translation)
8 And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment.
2 Peter 3 (New Living Translation)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.[a] 11 Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live, 12 looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames. 13 But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
Matthew 24 (New Living Translation)
37 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 38 In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. 39 People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.
Ilene, in obedience to Yahushua, I love you and your fellowship of believers but when I notice that you all are quick to discredit anyones message when they are trying to show people that there is a horrible judgment coming for those in disobedience to Christ I have to leave. I take it as... "we don't want to hear your message... leave please." And of course that's not the message I'm consumed with, as the love of God is, but repentance of sin is part of the Gospel. I don't feel the Holy Spirit is welcome here, and so I'd rather not post here. Like I said, in honor of the Blood of the Lamb, I love you all as brothers and sisters but I have nothing else to say. I take that back. I may post in fellowship with my brother Yeshuasavedme but that's about it.
When you have no conviction of sin, it's higly likely you have no Holy Spirit.
You might want to do some research on Christian Universalists, we're a far cry from Unitarian Universalists. We believe there is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Christ and we definitely believe in judgment. We just don't believe that the "punishment" is going to be eternal. I'm new to the whole Universalist belief so I'm still learning but you're right, we're all brothers and sisters in Christ and we should be able to say what we want to say, in love of course.
Don't leave because what you have to say is very important. I still have a lot to learn, and I'm always learning from my other brothers and sisters in Christ whether we agree on everything or not. It shouldn't matter, we should all be able to voice our opinions and beliefs without being censored or belittled. However, you've only been here a short time and what has just happened is unusual as we were all able to talk about whatever we wanted to talk about until today. So, hang around, things have a way of shifting.
Hey Ilene, I notice that CU churches are very minimal in number compared to UU churches. Is there any particular reason for this?
The reason why most Christian websites do not allow Universalists to post is because most fundamental Christians believe that without the concept of eternal suffering in place, it eliminates all personal accountability for humans on this earth. If Universalism was indeed true, they would no longer belong to their "members only" club. Their status would be reduced. Without the doctrine of an eternal hell, their #1 recruitment tool goes completely out the window.
Let's be honest. What is the #1 factor that drives people to religion in the first place? Simple answer here: The fear of the afterlife. For the same reason Christians believe that ALL muslims are going to hell, it is a mutual feeling all muslims have towards Christians as well.
Right now, Universalism is the #1 threat to fundamental Christianity. They have a right to be worried. The concept of eternal love is a LOT more enticing than eternal torment. It also makes much more sense the closer one looks at the big picture.
Right now, Universalism is the #1 threat to fundamental Christianity.
I think I heard universalism mentioned only once at church in Bible study when we talked about false teachings in general, and even then it was mentioned only among many other false teachings. I think the watered down liberal teachings are a biggest reason that keeps people from having a personal relationship with God.
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It's the only way, I'm afraid, that things were going to change.
