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Old 01-25-2011, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,140,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You know what I find really strange about the question posed by the OP? It's the idea than somehow Adam is (or was) an enemy to Jesus Christ. It's the implication that Adam is somehow aligned with Satan in trying to overthrow the kingdom of God or something. Do all Christians except LDS Christians have this negative perception of him?
Katzpur,

Adam is not the "enemy" of Christ.
Adam had a role to play in the story of salvation. God knew that Adam would fall, and He also determined that through that fall, ALL mankind would be placed under sin and death.

My question is this: if all mankind has experienced Adam's reign of sin and death, can it be otherwise, but that all mankind will experience the reign of the Last Adam, Christ (which is righteousness and eternal life)?

If Adam has influenced mankind 100 percent, Christ must do the same. Anything less will make Adam the "victor" over mankind.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,401 posts, read 25,791,940 times
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It is amazing to think of father Adam thought of in such a way. He is our first earthly father. Amazing that people would think that our Father in Heaven would have to create a plan B. To think that God didn't know what he was doing in the beggining. Adam and Eve were told not to partake of the Fruit of the tree. They were also told to multiply and replenish the Earth. Adam was tempted and obeyed. Eve was tempted and did partake of the fruit. Adam also had to partake if he was to follow all of God's commandments. How could they multiply and replenish the Earth if Adam was alone in the Garden while Eve was cast out? Adam sinned that man may be. He was also cast out of the Garden of Eden so he could be with Eve. What did that do for us? Living outside the Garden created death. So we all die. Still no problem, because part of God's plan all along was to send a Savior to the world. He did that is sending his Son Jesus Christ to save us from our own sins and not Adams transgression.
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
58,851 posts, read 32,287,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Are you saying that everyone has an equal understanding of spiritual things? Are you saying that you believe that my understanding of spiritual things is equal if not greater than yours?
That's my point. Even if you think you know the scriptures better than other people, and even if it is true, you should not label others demaning words. The Pharisees did that. It is self elevation, and not nice. That was my whole point.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:12 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,234,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's my point. Even if you think you know the scriptures better than other people, and even if it is true, you should not label others demaning words. The Pharisees did that. It is self elevation, and not nice. That was my whole point.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,312,642 times
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Christ already won.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Way,Way Up On The Old East Coast
2,179 posts, read 1,682,903 times
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Default A Post That Truly Says It All !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
As everyone dies because of Adam, so also everyone will be made alive because of Christ.

The good news is GOOD news.

There are a variety of reasons why some do not YET see this good news. And I think a lot of us here know a few of those reasons. Because we didn't always see the good news clearly ourselves.

It wasn't until He went in and did a few things to my heart that the blinders slowly fell off. Here is what HE did for me:


*******
The master heart surgeon first cut out some non-love towards mankind (anger, lack of patience, lack of forgiveness etc.) in my heart that was preventing me from seeing OTHERS clearly.

THEN He started to cut out a lot of non-love towards GOD (FEAR) in my heart that was preventing me from seeing HIM clearly.
(Remember there is NO FEAR in love.)

*******

These two things were absolutely CRUCIAL. And they tie into the TWO GREAT COMMANDS.
Ohhhhh.... this is SO VITAL. The two commands are EVERYTHING.


I would love to go in more detail above at a later date.


And that is when my journey really began...
Before all of that, I was utterly and completely blinded as to WHO He really was. Thank GOD for that heart surgery. I would still be in darkness without it. And I would never have understood what "LOVE conquers all" truly means.

peace,
sparrow
.sparrow !!! ... Three thumbs up for you !

A marvelous post Indeed !

The Lion of Judah ! ... Son of the Living God ! The greatest force for good whom ever walked upon the earth before or since !

The Good News of the Kingdom is the most important divine message that mankind will ever receive !

.sparrow is quite right about seeing Him more clearly as a desciple progresses ( follows in His foot steps) and keeps his eyes focused strictly on the Master !

.sparrow I wish I could give you 1,000 reps for this most profound post !

Gods Peace be unto you ! Old Sgt. Lamar
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,424 posts, read 21,090,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
It is amazing to think of father Adam thought of in such a way. He is our first earthly father. Amazing that people would think that our Father in Heaven would have to create a plan B. To think that God didn't know what he was doing in the beggining. Adam and Eve were told not to partake of the Fruit of the tree. They were also told to multiply and replenish the Earth. Adam was tempted and obeyed. Eve was tempted and did partake of the fruit. Adam also had to partake if he was to follow all of God's commandments. How could they multiply and replenish the Earth if Adam was alone in the Garden while Eve was cast out? Adam sinned that man may be. He was also cast out of the Garden of Eden so he could be with Eve. What did that do for us? Living outside the Garden created death. So we all die. Still no problem, because part of God's plan all along was to send a Savior to the world. He did that is sending his Son Jesus Christ to save us from our own sins and not Adams transgression.
Very well stated. Almost too perfectly well-stated.
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,424 posts, read 21,090,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Katzpur,

Adam is not the "enemy" of Christ.
Adam had a role to play in the story of salvation. God knew that Adam would fall, and He also determined that through that fall, ALL mankind would be placed under sin and death.

My question is this: if all mankind has experienced Adam's reign of sin and death, can it be otherwise, but that all mankind will experience the reign of the Last Adam, Christ (which is righteousness and eternal life)?

If Adam has influenced mankind 100 percent, Christ must do the same. Anything less will make Adam the "victor" over mankind.

Blessings,
brian
Thanks for the clarification, Brian. I see what you mean now.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,140,934 times
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Just a thought to add to this thread, in case it might bless someone!


I have always been taught that, whether I like it or not, Adam's sin was passed on to me. His disobedience = my disobedience. I "inherited" a sin nature which I am bound to.

If this is true (correct me if I'm wrong), then ought not the gift of salvation be "bigger" than the curse of Adam?

Jesus is called "the Last Adam." I believe He is called "Adam" because what He did was the same "quality" and "office" as what Adam passed on to all mankind, but in the reverse.

So just as all mankind inherited the fallen nature of Adam, so too all mankind must also inherit the Divine Nature of Christ. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." 1 Cor 15.49


Let's discuss!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,612,574 times
Reputation: 4470
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
If this is true (correct me if I'm wrong)
I can't - you're right.
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