Fear-based faith has damaged my faith

[Blue Hue]

Above you note...

"This is more than fear...this is a profound moral characteristic of our Universe"......................................... ............................................

As its known...consequence is a reality through-out the Universe.

Hell in contemplation would constitute insanity by sadistically nature.

For hell to exist it would require Gods contemplation.

An idi-Armin type... with a torture chamber in the basement, for.....entertainment on the weekends Doesn't make sense.

There doesn't seem to be a profound moral consequence of "torture" in the universe. If I walk up to a cougar lunching on a rabbit and decide to join him in a bite or two...it will most likely be the last thing I do..(not always in opinion)

I don't think the cougar is interested in anything like pulling my teeth out one by one or...taking a small bite and getting some torture rolling.

A bear , breaks the neck of victim. I'm sure somebody can come up with something to argue this aspect, but the point is...in nature there really isn't a universal "theme in a "profound torture chamber", satisfying consequence in behavior .

Life can evolve. Here we see positive consequence of adjustment to inability or...error in approached adaptation.

Here's in general what I'm thinking....in everything its possible to see the glass half full. No matter what the glass is half full....if continued over time the glass becomes..guess what...less than half full regardless of reality.

Above all.....no one is perfect..

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

Indeed, ET is just as emotional as UR, the only difference is the emotions involved are hate and vengeance rather than love and forgiveness.

Here Tertullian, Polycarp, Iranaeus and the saints in the book of Revelation talk. Vengeance is what they seek from God, as if their happiness depended on it.

I understand how you are feeling Trimac ... The more i study the harder it can be to rectify all the obvious incongruities of the Christian religion. Even while studying the bible itself free from all the mistranslations and traditional interpretations, when reading it with an open mind and some knowledge of the context and history behind it all, it is obviously the work of many different and obviously divergent perspectives.

And this is not only apparent in the deferences between old and new testaments, but also between the different writings of the old and new testaments respectively.

Yes one can systematically interpret the scriptures in order to harmonize them so that some sense can be made of them altogether as an whole, but its no simple task and can be approached from just about any angle in order to seemingly prove just about any hermeneutic.

And the confusion is not relegated to our modern era so far removed from the times and cultures within which the scriptures came about. Obviously there was just as much difference in interpretation in the first and second centuries as there are now, and it seems apparent that even the apostles themselves where not alway in agreement either.

God forgive us for being critical and trying to make sense of such a terrible mess ...

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

The kind of peace which you speak is the smug assurance that YOU won't be God's firewood. What if you woke up and for some reason struggled to believe, God forbid. You'd probably be in such a panic you wouldn't know what to do.

That smug assurance is the assurance of Jesus Christ. When I said God gave me peace, I mean it. He gave me peace. Pray for peace, and you will receive it.

[legoman]

Peace that some people are in torment forever? How can that be peace?

That is what Trimac is talking about.

[legoman]

Trimac, I hope you will keep seeking.

Keep focused on what God is. God is love. Read 1 Cor 13 a few times over until it really sinks in that this is what God is. That is the point of everything. 1 John is also excellent on this point.

That is why love is the most important thing, because that is what God is. It is how we know God.

That is why God commands us to love. Because it is the most important thing. Because that is how we know God. That is how we follow Jesus (ie "why do you follow me but do not do what I say?" Jesus taught us to LOVE). Love God. Love your neighbor. Love your enemy.

God is love.
Love never fails.
Love conquers all.

Love always protects.
Love rejoices in the truth.

This is what we are commanded to do. This is what God is.

This is what this whole world is for. It is for us to fully experience and understand and learn what LOVE is. Part of that is experiencing non-love so that we can experience how love conquers the non-love. Then we will come to fully know God.

This whole concept of eternal torment is the complete opposite of love. It is the epitome of non-love. It will be conquered by God's love. That is what we are learning.

Its good news - though many do not see it yet. They are in the darkness. Keep seeking - come into the light...

[Miss Blue]

Closed..

There is still a temporary ban on discussions about hell...sorry