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Let me put it this way. Suppose I walk into an auditorium filled with people and ask them "Who BELIEVES I can jump 40 feet into the air, please raise your hand". I look around and nobody raises their hand. Nobody believes right. But then I tell them "WATCH" and I then proceed to jump 40 feet into the air and come back down and land softly on my own two feet. I then ask the people "Who BELIEVES I can jump 41 feet into the air, pleas raise your hand". I look around and everyone is raising their hand. What happened? Did their belief come from within them? Or did I give them BELIEF by jumping into the air?
You see many will answer incorrectly that the belief came from themselves but the FACT remains that had I not jumped 40 feet into the air they would still be in disbelief. So the power for them to believe that I could jump 40 feet into the air was in my hands.
You are talking about faith, or lack thereof at first,,to confirmation in a belief, which isn't faith at all. "Blessed are they who don't see, and believe". I am not arguing about faith, which is a gift from the Father.
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Now there is no doubt that the conscience decision to believe what they were see was Truth came from the person but that person is acting on the principles of LOGIC and REASON to conclude from their observations that something was TRUE.
Again, read above.
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So we all know that LOGIC itself along with REASON are God created mental abilities that are part of the normal functioning brain. We use these attributes everyday just to guide a car down the street.
I agree. We have these traits from birth. It is, after all, how we were created in the first place and sets us apart from the other animals on the planet.
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So understand that God is the giver of our new heart, our faith, our repentance and ultimately our salvation no matter how much we process those gifts for even the processing of the gifts is a gift from God.
You made a conclusion based upon your personal beliefs, and not sound logic. Repentance is action BASED upon faith. It is the walk OF faith. So, in this sense, I would agree that without faith, the works is DEAD. How can there be any works without faith? Faith is the gift, and repentance is the requirement of said faith.
You take out the working repentant part of that faith, and that faith is a dead faith, or no faith at all.
God has, and has ALWAYS had, requirements concerning faith. Abram had to leave. Israel had to leave Egypt. We can either rest in this faith, or work this faith. Jesus said, if you love me, KEEP MY COMMANDS. Can love itself be called a work? I would think not, but have you ever bit your tongue around someone BECAUSE you loved them? Other way, have you ever went off on someone because of a lack of love? And then had to repent? See where this can go?
So no,,,I would stongly disagree that repentance is the gift, when faith has always been the gift, and repentnace is the result of the gift.
It would be like getting a cool bicycle for your birthday. And when you get it, it is in a box. Well, can you ride it? Why not? Because it is disassembled, therefore making it iimpossible to ride. Did this nullify the gift, because you could not ride it? No! You can see it pictured on the box. It IS a bike in there, even though the contents don't match the picture.
So there is work to be done. Once you have put the bike together, then you can fully appreciate this gift and enjoy the fruit of it. Putting the bike together, is akin to repentance. It requires time, sacrifice, and knowledge, and the ability to read the plan. It requires the faith that ALL the parts are there, because when you start, you have no idea. You see pieces. And IF you cannot do it alone, there is the 'Bike Master', who can guide you into the knowledge of puttig it together. Will He do it FOR you? No! You must do it alone! Why? Because that it the walk of faith.
You are talking about faith, or lack thereof at first,,to confirmation in a belief, which isn't faith at all. "Blessed are they who don't see, and believe". I am not arguing about faith, which is a gift from the Father.
Again, read above.
I agree. We have these traits from birth. It is, after all, how we were created in the first place and sets us apart from the other animals on the planet.
You made a conclusion based upon your personal beliefs, and not sound logic. Repentance is action BASED upon faith. It is the walk OF faith. So, in this sense, I would agree that without faith, the works is DEAD. How can there be any works without faith? Faith is the gift, and repentance is the requirement of said faith.
You take out the working repentant part of that faith, and that faith is a dead faith, or no faith at all.
God has, and has ALWAYS had, requirements concerning faith. Abram had to leave. Israel had to leave Egypt. We can either rest in this faith, or work this faith. Jesus said, if you love me, KEEP MY COMMANDS. Can love itself be called a work? I would think not, but have you ever bit your tongue around someone BECAUSE you loved them? Other way, have you ever went off on someone because of a lack of love? And then had to repent? See where this can go?
So no,,,I would stongly disagree that repentance is the gift, when faith has always been the gift, and repentnace is the result of the gift.
It would be like getting a cool bicycle for your birthday. And when you get it, it is in a box. Well, can you ride it? Why not? Because it is disassembled, therefore making it iimpossible to ride. Did this nullify the gift, because you could not ride it? No! You can see it pictured on the box. It IS a bike in there, even though the contents don't match the picture.
So there is work to be done. Once you have put the bike together, then you can fully appreciate this gift and enjoy the fruit of it. Putting the bike together, is akin to repentance. It requires time, sacrifice, and knowledge, and the ability to read the plan. It requires the faith that ALL the parts are there, because when you start, you have no idea. You see pieces. And IF you cannot do it alone, there is the 'Bike Master', who can guide you into the knowledge of puttig it together. Will He do it FOR you? No! You must do it alone! Why? Because that it the walk of faith.
HotinAZ, you believe that repentance is YOUR part in bringing you to salvation, correct?
HotinAZ, you believe that repentance is YOUR part in bringing you to salvation, correct?
What did John the Baptist say?
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
What did Jesus Christ, our King, say?
From that time Jesus began to PREACH and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
What did the disciples teach?
They went out and preached that men should repent.
When Jesus was talking about the Galileans He said:
Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Same thing here:
Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
What did they preach in Acts after Jesus had ascended?
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
What did Jesus say through the Revelation given to John to the church?
'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; OR ELSE I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.
Now, unless you personally feel this message is a lost cause, and repentance is no longer required for salvation? Then it is you that needs a biblical history lesson, my brother.
My answer is emphatically, YES. Repentance IS a requirement for salvation. And if you think to call it a works based salvation? I would rebuke it and say unless one repents, they NEVER, EVER TRULY LOVED THE LORD THY GOD, and His SON JESUS CHRIST. For if they did, repentance would not be considered 'work', but rather is would be evidence OF their salvation, and the love they have for their God.
From that time Jesus began to PREACH and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
What did the disciples teach?
They went out and preached that men should repent.
When Jesus was talking about the Galileans He said:
Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Same thing here:
Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
What did they preach in Acts after Jesus had ascended?
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
What did Jesus say through the Revelation given to John to the church?
'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; OR ELSE I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.
Now, unless you personally feel this message is a lost cause, and repentance is no longer required for salvation? Then it is you that needs a biblical history lesson, my brother.
My answer is emphatically, YES. Repentance IS a requirement for salvation. And if you think to call it a works based salvation? I would rebuke it and say unless one repents, they NEVER, EVER TRULY LOVED THE LORD THY GOD, and His SON JESUS CHRIST. For if they did, repentance would not be considered 'work', but rather is would be evidence OF their salvation, and the love they have for their God.
Ok, so you answers that repentance is YOUR part in the salvation process. Then obviously that means God needs your help in saving you, correct?
Ok, so you answers that repentance is YOUR part in the salvation process. Then obviously that means God needs your help in saving you, correct?
Are you playing games here? Really?
God doesn't NEED my help in saving me.
God could, if He chose to, automatically declare me saved by default, 'just because'. ....no matter how wicked I was, is, or could be. But, such is NOT the case, is it?
God REQUIRES. Yes, God requires something from us. The first is:::::::
YOUSHALL LOVE the Lord YOUR God with ALL YOUR heart, with ALL YOUR mind, with ALL YOUR soul.
?
Do you see anything in this that requires ANYTHING from YOU?
So, what entitlement do you think you have to get something,, for nothing? I mean, Jesus gave EVERYTHING, for you. So, now you are just here, and that makes it ok? By some sort of creational birthright?
God REQUIRES. Yes, God requires something from us. The first is:::::::
YOUSHALL LOVE the Lord YOUR God with ALL YOUR heart, with ALL YOUR mind, with ALL YOUR soul.
I believe that command is so that we will seek Him, HotinAZ... and come to understand His true nature. It's a command not for His benefit, but for ours. He wants us to understand His love. He wants us to keep pushing on, to fight past all of this darkness that mankind has cloaked Him in and all of the travesties, the acts of war and agression and violence that man has committed in His name and ATTRIBUTED to Him, and all of the monstrous things, mankind has attempted to stick to Him and say "THIS IS GOD". I believe that command is HIS loving way of PUSHING us past all of this darkness that WE have created around Him, pushing us to overcome all of that in an effort to find and seek out His true nature: LOVE.
It's a beautiful command because it shows God's desire for us to KNOW Him. And know that HE is love.
God could, if He chose to, automatically declare me saved by default, 'just because'. ....no matter how wicked I was, is, or could be. But, such is NOT the case, is it?
God REQUIRES. Yes, God requires something from us. The first is:::::::
YOUSHALL LOVE the Lord YOUR God with ALL YOUR heart, with ALL YOUR mind, with ALL YOUR soul.
?
Do you see anything in this that requires ANYTHING from YOU?
So, what entitlement do you think you have to get something,, for nothing? I mean, Jesus gave EVERYTHING, for you. So, now you are just here, and that makes it ok? By some sort of creational birthright?
So if God can do anything and don't need us to do our PART then God can save anyone at anytime.
God could, if He chose to, automatically declare me saved by default, 'just because'. ....no matter how wicked I was, is, or could be. But, such is NOT the case, is it?
God REQUIRES. Yes, God requires something from us. The first is:::::::
YOUSHALL LOVE the Lord YOUR God with ALL YOUR heart, with ALL YOUR mind, with ALL YOUR soul.
?
Do you see anything in this that requires ANYTHING from YOU?
Ask yourself, Hot . . . when you feel Love within you . . . who does it affect? As sparrow said . . . God want us to love Him because of what that does for US. He also wants us to love each other for the same reason . . . what it does for US. Those two things also encompass ALL the things God wants for us . . . (encompasses all the "Laws"). God is God and NEEDS nothing from us. God is Infinite Glory and we cannot add to that in any way, either. We can do NOTHING FOR God . . . it is ALL to benefit US.
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