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Good logic, but it proceeds from the idea that the rebuke is to the Corinthians for their attitude on women. I don't see that as being the case.
If you leave out the part about women, the rebuke is to the Corinthians for not maintaining good order in worship, it seems to have become something of a melee.
But the rebuke comes just after what is said of women, it is rebuking them for saying what they said of women.
Chapter 7 begins,'' Now concerning the things you wrote unto me.''
From then on are many contradictions and rebukes because Paul was answering their letters.
Okay, so now that you're a bit more lucid and coherent than you were yesterday, let's try something to demonstrate why your reasoning is fallacious. Answer the following question:
How do we know that we should seek guidance by the Spirit?
If, hypothetically, someone was to disagree with this idea, how would you justify this idea?
Right, I'm more coherent so you are less confused, ok. Because in matters of faith and community we should ALWAYS seek the guidance of the Spirit and when two people are actually DOing that rather than trying to promote their own agenda, they can use ALL of the tools of the Spirit to work out what is appropriate.
Nate, no use arguing with those who don't even grasp the concepts contained in their idol, the Bible.
Quote:
"Baptized into Messiah
you are clothed in Messiah,
so that there is no more Jew or Greek,
slave or free, man or woman, but all are one, are the same
in Jesus Messiah." (Gal. 3:26-28)
The equality of men and women was a thing so shocking in the patriarchal society of Jesus' time that his own male followers could not understand it.
"At this point his followers arrived and were thunderstruck [ethaumazon] that he was speaking to a woman"--and a Samaritan woman at that. (John 4:27)
It was a source of scandal for women to travel openly with a rabbi; but "many" women followed Jesus through Galilee (Luke 8:2-3). For a long time the story of Martha and Mary, the latter praised because she sat at Jesus' feet instead of helping Martha in the kitchen, was treated as praise over the active life (Luke 10:38-42). It was used for the practice of sealing women away in convents which were not far from the kitchen in many cases but certainly were far better than "the world." But Jerome Nerey, after a close study of social conditions in Jesus' time, shows that Jesus was defending the woman who would be criticized in His era for acting outside her condoned space, entering the world of the learned (signified by sitting at the feet of a teacher). So, far from closing women into a safe retreat from the world, He was beckoning them out into it, to join men in knowledge and action.
There was a crowd of women followers at the cross, when all but one of the male company had fled or stood far off (Mark 15:40-41). Three of these women who were at the cross were the first to discover the empty tomb and to announce their finding to the male followers, becoming the first evangels of the Resurrection (Luke 24:1-11). One of these women was the first to converse with the risen Jesus (John 20:15-17).
Women continued to play a prominent role in the early gatherings. They were prophets (I Cor. 11:5). Paul addresses them as leaders in the various gatherings he formed--Chloe in Corinth, where she speaks for "her establishment" (I Cor 1:11); Phoebe, the manager (diakonos) at Cenchreae (Rom. 16:1); Apphia at (probably) Colossae (Phlm. 2), where Nympha was also a leader (Col 4:15). At Phillipi, Eunoe and Syntyche "struggled by my side for the gospel," (Phil. 4:3). Lydia, the dealer in fabrics, led a whole group of women instructed by Paul (Acts 16:13) Other women are mentioned in missionary activity. Junia is called an emissary (apostolos), Paul's own title for himself. She and her husband shared Paul's imprisonment (Rom. 15:7). Prisca and her husband are "my fellow workers, who risked their own necks to save my life," so that the whole assembly owes the two of them its gratitude (Rom. 116:3-5). Paul refers to four women---Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, Persis---as having "toiled with effort" (kopiaein, Rom. 16:6, 12) for the Christians, the same verb he uses of his own activities (Gal 4:11, I Cor. 15:10).
--------------
The original gatherings of Jesus, still reflecting His teaching, made up the most egalitarian earthly society then in existence.
------------
A first-century fresco in the catacomb of Saint Priscilla in Rome shows a woman breaking the eucharistic bread for six other women at the agape table.
Garry Wills (professor Emeritus at Northwestern University and a prolific writer), What Jesus Meant, Viking, Penguin Group (USA) Inc., copyright 2006 (e-book). (Bible quotes from New English Bible)
Jesus was so shocking to the culture of His day that He was called an agent of the devil, or the devil himself. They saw Him as a consorter with Samaritans with loose women, making Him an unclean individual (ceremonial). In the eyes of Pharisees He was a promoter of immorality (Mark 2:16), a glutton and a drunkard (Luke 7:34), and a mocker of the Jewish Law (Matt. 12:10, John 5:16, 9:16).
In no way was He, "Jesus meek and mild." He shook things up. And one of the biggest, that shocked even His disciples, was the way He treated women. But then the lying pens of scribes tried to alter Scripture (Paul's letter I Cor. 14:34-35) to put women back in the kitchen and away from the men.
(Paul's letter I Cor. 14:34-35) to put women back in the kitchen and away from the men.
Jesus, however, will have none of it.
AGAIN!
LET's DO IT AGAIN.
AGAIN
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
DO YOU SEE THIS REBUKE?
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
AGAIN, Paul was quoting the rules that the Corinthians church made against women JUST EXACTLY as he says beginning in chapter 7: ''NOW CONCERNING THE THINGS YOU WROTE UNTO ME.''
WHAT?
All capital letters, and this is just one rebuke, there is more and AGAIN, they begin with,' WHAT?"
PROVING without a doubt that you are seeing Paul quoting them and then rebuking them.
Here is the beginning of another rebuke where Paul once again quoted what they said and then said,'' WHAT?"
All Capital letters BECAUSE Paul is shocked at what they say and do.
1 Corinthians 11
22WHAT? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
Should I show more examples of Paul quoting them and then rebuking them?
And how do we know that we should "always seek the guidance of the Spirit"?
On what basis do we defend this idea?
On the basis that the Spirit is about concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the kind of love that Jesus taught. Check the characteristics of the Spirit as reported that Jesus revealed, and confirm it in yourself.
I will tell you the truth flat out, my perception is that the people who don't trust the Spirit to do what Jesus promised can not have encountered that Spirit. It is life-changing.
On the basis that the Spirit is about concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the kind of love that Jesus taught. Check the characteristics of the Spirit as reported that Jesus revealed, and confirm it in yourself.
I will tell you the truth flat out, my perception is that the people who don't trust the Spirit to do what Jesus promised can not have encountered that Spirit. It is life-changing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousseff
And how do we defend the idea that the Spirit is about the "kind of love that Jesus taught"?
the Spirit is about concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the kind of love that Jesus taught. Check the characteristics of the Spirit as reported that Jesus revealed, and confirm it in yourself.
Let's try again: I asked how we know that we should "always seek the guidance of the Spirit". This doesn't answer the question.
Let's try again: I asked how we know that we should "always seek the guidance of the Spirit". This doesn't answer the question.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Let's try again: I asked how we know that we should "always seek the guidance of the Spirit". This doesn't answer the question.
I begin to understand that your reading comprehension is not the greatest. You originally asked the question and I replied, "On the basis that the Spirit is about concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the kind of love that Jesus taught. Check the characteristics of the Spirit as reported that Jesus revealed, and confirm it in yourself"
You THEN asked, "And how do we defend the idea that the Spirit is about the "kind of love that Jesus taught"? in a post which seems to have disappeared, but which I quoted in the post just before this last one and I wondered how you missed what I said in reply. I'm not sure what you are looking for, but I think either you don't understand my reply OR, more likely, you have an agenda you are trying to press and you just didn't like the way I answered it. What is it about my answer you are having problems with?
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