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18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days Iwill raise it up.
20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21But he spake of the temple of his body.
Quote:
[SIZE=+3]John 2:19[/SIZE]
Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
[SIZE=+1]Trinitarian Claim[/SIZE]
Trinitarians claim that Jesus must be God because he said he will raise himself from the dead.
[SIZE=+1]Examination of the Claim[/SIZE]
1. Matthew 26:38-41
The following verse does not square with the Trinitarian interpretation of John 2:19.
Jesus said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me." And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me. Yet not as I will, but as You will." And He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour? "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
2. Matthew 27:46
The following verse also does not square with the Trinitarian interpretation of John 2:19.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lama sabach-thani?" that is, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
3. Hebrews 5:7
The following verse also does not square with the Trinitarian interpretation of John 2:19.
In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the One who is able to save him from death and he was heard for his godly fear. Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.
4. Matthew 27:40
At Matthew 27:40, we find the Jews referring to this statement from Jesus:
And those passing by were hurling abuse at him, wagging their heads and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself if you are the Son of God, come down from the cross."
5. John 10:17-18
Jesus received authority from the Father to lay down his life and take/receive it up again. If Jesus needed to be given this authority this would indicate he is not God rather than John 2:19 indicating he is God.
For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own authority. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father. (John 10:17-18).
6. John 5:26
The Father gave the Son to have life in himself. God does not need to be given to have life in himself. Jesus is also here referring to resurrection life.
For just as the Father has life in Himself, so also He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself....Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who have done good to a resurrection of life, those who done evil to a resurrection of judgment.
7. John 6:57
Jesus declares he has life because of the Father. He also says the following in the same context where he says three times, "and I will raise him up on the last day" in reference to resurrection life. Note here that he indicates that others will have life because of him just as he will have because of the Father.
Just as the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.
8. John 11:25
Jesus declares he is the resurrection and the life.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life."
9. Jesus can do nothing by Himself
In the Gospel of John, Jesus said that He was not able to do anything on his own.
I am not able of my own self to do anything. John 5:30.
10. Jesus was in the Temple
The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who were selling....
11. Jesus referred to the Temple as the House of his Father
Take these things away. Do not turn the House of my Father into a marketplace. His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house will consume me."
12. The Jews had asked Jesus for a Sign that He had the Authority to Clear the Temple
The Jews then said to him, "What sign have you to show us for doing this?
And then we also read, "Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing.(v. 23).
[SIZE=+1]Analysis of the Evidence[/SIZE]
1. The Tabernacled Word and the Stone Temple
At John 1:14 we read that the Father's Word became flesh:
And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
The word in question means "to tent" and in the ancient Hebrew mind a person's body was his tent or his tabernacle. It is also the Tabernacle, or Tent, of Meeting, the Jewish temple in the wilderness.
Jesus was in the Temple when he said these words at John 2:19. The Temple was the House of his Father. The Temple was where the Spirit of God came down and the shekinah glory of God was present to the Israelites. As John says, "and we saw his glory."
2. The Father's Word
The God of Israel had promised to send them a prophet and God says these words about this prophet:
[YAHWEH]: I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren, and I will put MY words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. (Deuteronomy 18:18).
Moses said, "The Lord God [YAHWEH] will raise up for you a prophet from your brethren as he raised me up. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.' And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came afterwards, also proclaimed these days. You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, "And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.' God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you in turning every one of you from your wickedness. (Acts 7:22-25 RSV).
As the Word which had became flesh, Jesus makes several statements that he does not speak his own words but the words of his Father.
For [the Word] whom God has sent utters the words of God, for it is not by measure that he gives the Spirit. (3:34).
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, [the Word] can do nothing of himself, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever he does, that the Son does likewise.(5:19).
He who is hearing my word, and believing Him who sent me. (John 5:24).
I [the Word] am able to do nothing from myself. (5:30)
I [the Word] have come in the name of my Father, and you do not receive me, if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? (5:43-44).
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. (John 6:63).
My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me, if any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. (7:16-18).
I [the Word] know him, for I [the Word] come from him, and he sent me [the Word]. (7:29).
Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing from myself but as my Father teaches me I speak. (8:28).
Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear my word.... He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God. (John 8:47).
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. (John 12:44).
For I [the Word of God] do not speak out of myself. The Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak. (12:49).
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from myself but the Father who abides in me does his works. (14:10).
I have given them the words which You gave me, and they have received them and know in truth that I [Your Word] came from you and they have believed that you have sent me.(17:8).
Father.... I made known to them Your name (17:1, 26).
Jesus was the Word of God. God's Word was the Father's expression of himself to Israel. As God's Word he was t he Father's voice to Israel.
He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine, but the FATHER'S who sent me. (John 14:24).
It seems quite clear that the point of the passage is to illustrate how the Father's Word is tabernacled in His temple, that is, the body of Jesus by the Holy Spirit that was in Jesus and as the Father's Word we are to understand that the son speaks on his Father's authority. The Father raised Jesus from the dead and because Jesus came in his Father's name he speaks the words of his Father, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." Jesus was a prophet of God and God indicated he would put His words in this prophets mouth just as Jesus confirms many times in the Gospel of John. Just as the prophets of old spoke in the name of God and used terms like "I" and "Me" as if the Father himself is speaking, Jesus the very Word of God is speaking as the Word of the Father.
Notice where He, the Word, is at the moment. He is in the Temple. What does he say his body is? The temple of God. The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. So where is the Spirit of God? In his body. The Word had previously abided in the Spirit of God and now the Spirit of God was abiding in the Word. The Gospels teach over and over that that authority of God is given by his Spirit and the same is true here. He is not speaking on his own but in the Spirit of God his Father who gave him authority in the Spirit and who will raise him from the dead in that same Spirit. By what authority? By the authority that will raise him up, the Father in the Spirit of Holiness.
This was a message from God the Father to these Jews. The Jewish Temple rulers were the ones who conspired to kill Jesus and yelled, "Crucify him, crucify him." They would destroy God the Father's temple, the place where his Spirit dwelt, the body of the man Jesus. And the Word having become flesh, God the Father speaks to these Jews by means of his Word, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."
The solution to the question is to carefully regard the question the Jews had asked Jesus. They wanted a sign that would tell them his reasons for clearing the Temple. And we find in the Gospel of John that Jesus tells us by what authority that he says the things he says and does the things he does.
I understand the confusion over this because the Scriptures present Jesus as both the "Son of God" and YHWH Creator. Clearly Jesus was pre-existant and claimed to be the "I AM" - the pre-existant one.
Jesus is the "image of the invisible God" (1 Cor 1:14-17), "God"(John 1), the "Alpha and the Omega" (Revelation 1)(Zechariah 12).
Jesus was God born into his creation as a Man. He is a distinct person but at one with the Father. The Holy Spirit is also called God.
Jesus says he "came down from Heaven".
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3
Jesus is the "I am". The voice of the burning bush. Identified as YHWH.
Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The next verse the Pharisees pick up stones to throw at him. What was the penalty for blasphemy? Stoning. They new his claim was to be THE "I Am". The pre-existant one.
Quote:
[SIZE=+3] John 8:58[/SIZE]
"Before Abraham was I am"
[SIZE=+1]The Trinitarian Claim[/SIZE]
Trinitarians claim that Jesus was here intentionally using unique language to identify himself as Yahweh who pre-exists as a person before Abraham and for this reason the Jews wanted to stone him.
[SIZE=+1]What the Evidence will Show[/SIZE]
The facts will show that Jesus was not using unique language at all. The facts will also reveal precisely why the Jews wanted to stone Jesus.
[SIZE=+1]Examination of the Claim[/SIZE]
Trinitarians are actually making three distinct claims with regard to this verse:
A. Jesus was invoking the divine name (YAHWEH) given to Moses at Exodus 3:14 and is therefore identifying himself as God, that is, YAHWEH.
B. Jesus was claiming to be a pre-existent person who existed as a person before Abraham existed.
C. The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be their God.
A. The Divine Name Claim
1. Ego eimi
Trinitarians claim that the Greek words ego eimi, "I am," are an intentional language technique implemented by Jesus to invoke the divine name and identify himself as Yahweh God. The words ego eimi are used often in John. For example, Jesus uses the term in chapter 4 to simply mean he is the Christ. He uses the words, "I am" to mean "It is me" in chapter 6. In chapter 18, we find the Romans looking for Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus responds by saying "I am," meaning "I am Jesus of Nazareth." This term is common in John's gospel and is not intended to convey the concept of "YHWH." Trinitarians go well beyond John's use of the term in his gospel to promote their doctrine.
In the Greek Septuagint, the actual divine name given to Moses was not simply, "ego eim," but was rather, "ego eimi ho on which means "I am the being" or "I am the existence" or "I am the existent one" or some similar concept. The divine name was not simply the two words ego eimi as Trinitarians suggestively imply here for this verse.
2. The Blind Man who said "I AM"
Let's have a look at a passage in the very next chapter of John's Gospel.
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him. We must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day; night comes, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." As he said this, he spat on the ground and made clay of the spittle and anointed the man's eyes with the clay, saying to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.
The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar, said,
"Is not this the man who used to sit and beg?"
Some said, "It is he."
Others said, "No, but he is like him."
He said, "I AM."
The Greek does not say, "I am he" or "I am the man" or anything of the sort. This man simply said, "ego eimi, "I AM." In fact, when the people were identifying him they did not say, "It is he," but simply "This is" in the third person, the very same thing as saying "I am," in the first person. This is John's vocabulary. But Trinitarians do not seem to have any diligence or respect for these matters. Indeed, the blind man when asked to be identified said only the two words, "I AM" and he is the only person to use these two words alone in the New Testament.
So why don't Trinitarians claim this fellow was invoking the divine name? The answer to that question is plainly obvious: because it does not suit their agenda. They simply have granted themselves a license to claim the words "I am" mean "YAHWEH" at John 8:58 but these selfsame words do not mean "YAHWEH at John 9:9. We can see quite clearly here that the words "I am", ego eimi where used by John in a variety of ways.
Since the blind man uses the exact same type of language, it is quite plain that Jesus was most definitely not implementing a unique language convention to identify himself as Yahweh God. These words did no such thing as we can see in the example of the blind man.
3. The Extent of the Trinitarian Folly
Now, let us even suppose, just for the sake of argument, that Jesus did intend to use the divine name YAHWEH. If he did, could we then say "Jesus is God?" Absolutely not as we shall now see. It gets quite amusing when we go back to Exodus 3:15 where we are first informed of the name "YAHWEH" (Yahweh).
And the angel of Yahweh appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. And Yahweh said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Yahweh, God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (KJV, "LORD" shown to read "Yahweh" as the word "LORD" is intended to indicate).
This was an angel of Yahweh. Stephen testifying before the Sanhedrin also says plainly that it was an angel that appeared to Moses (7:30-31).
Now when forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in a flame of fire in a bush. When Moses saw it he wondered at the sight; and as he drew near to look, the voice of the Lord came, "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob.' And Moses trembled and did not dare to look. (Acts 7:30-33 RSV).
Many times in the Old Testament we see this very same thing occurring.1 An angel of the Lord appears and he speaks, and is spoken to, as if he were Yahweh himself. In fact, Yahweh says that his "name is in him" referring to an angel of Yahweh and in the context of forgiving transgressions. And indeed Jesus tells us that his Father's name was in him and he made his Father's name known to the Jews (Jn 17:6, 11-12,26; cf. 5:43; 10:25; 12:48). Now let us also be reminded that Jesus teaches that no one has ever seen God or heard his voice but he himself. Let us also be reminded Jesus' sheep do hear his own voice. Because the angel of Yahweh is speaking in the name of God, he is acting as God's voice, and so when one dialogues with the angel he is dialoguing with an ambassador and emissary of God. The angel was an agent through which God spoke and was speaking in the name of Yahweh.
Now why is it that when an angel says, "I AM," he is not to be misconstrued as God himself, but when Jesus says "I AM" the Trinitarian expects everyone to accept that he is most definitely saying that he, Jesus, is God? Again, the answer is simple: it suits his Trinitarian agenda. Jesus made it abundantly plain what is happening here, but just like the Jewish Pharisees before him, he doesn't want to see what Jesus really taught. All he wants to see is what suits his Trinitarian agenda.
Let us go even further and discover what Jesus had taught.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. (1:1) For he [the Word] whom God has sent utters the words of God, for it is not by measure that he gives the Spirit. (3:34).
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever he does, that the Son does likewise.(5:19). I am able to do nothing from myself, just as I hear I judge (5:30) I have come in the name of my Father, and you do not receive me, if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? (5:43-44). My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me, if any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. (7:16-18).
I [the Word] know him, for I [the Word] come from him, and he sent me [the Word]. (7:29).
Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing from myself but as my Father teaches me I speak. (8:28). For I [the Word of God] do not speak out of myself. The Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak. (12:49).
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from myself but the Father who abides in me does his works. (14:10). I have given them the words which you gave me, and they have received them and know in truth that I [Your Word] came from you and they have believed that you have sent me.(17:8).
Father.... I made known to them your name (17:1, 26).
Jesus was the Word of God. He was God's expression of himself to Israel. As God's Word he was God's voice to Israel. He was "sent" by God; the word "sent" is the verb form of the word "apostle" which means "one sent." And then at John 20:21-22, he says, "Peace be with you. As the Father sent me, now I also send you.... Receive the Holy Spirit." As the Father sent him, now he sends his disciples. As he was the Word of God, now they are a Word of Christ, speaking that Word, that Good News which is Christ. They will express him to the world in what they say and what they do and they will be his witnesses, his voice. They will speak things in his name and do things in his name, that is, under his reputation and authority. In the very same way, Jesus was the "Word of God." He was God's voice to Israel and revealed the name of God his Father, that is, God's character. What he sayeth, the Lord God YAHWEH sayeth, and this is why Jesus says he only spoke and did what he saw the Father teaching and doing. If Jesus is the Word of God, what do you expect him to utter but "I AM." it does not mean God's Word is "I AM" but that God is "I AM."
[YAHWEH]: I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. (Deuteronomy 18:18)
Moses said, "The Lord God [YAHWEH] will raise up for you a prophet from your brethren as he raised me up. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.' And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came afterwards, also proclaimed these days. You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, "And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.' God, having raised up his servant2, sent him to you first, to bless you in turning every one of you from your wickedness. (Acts 7:22-25 RSV).
Pr Jesus is God's Word. YAHWEH will put HIS words in Jesus' mouth. And Jesus tells us straight up in the Gospel of John that this is exactly what God is doing. Peter tells us that particular Old Testament passage refers to Jesus at Acts 3:22 where he explains that Yahweh sent his servant-son Jesus to Israel. So when God speaks what do you expect to hear? Do you not expect to hear his word? Jesus was that word. John opens this very gospel by identifying him as the Word of God. He was God's Logos, his Word. The Greek word "Logos" means much more than "a word." It is a word which means Jesus was God's full expression of himself since that word came out of his very bosom (1:18). He was God's word sent out from him and since God's word is true, he was true, and since God's word fulfills his purpose, he fulfilled God's purpose, because he was that word. So when God says, "I AM," through an angel of the LORD, you hear him speak and when God's very own word is standing before you in the form of a man, you hear God speak in and express himself in an even more profound way. His ways are marvelous. Jesus was not Yahweh; he was his Father Yahweh's word and to hear Jesus his Word say "I AM" was to hear Yahweh his Father's voice say, "I AM."
So even IF Jesus WAS using the words to mean "YHVH" the Trinitarian still would have no case. But as we shall now see, Jesus never intended his words as a reference to Yahweh in the first place.
B. The Pre-existent Person Claim
1. Angels, including Satan, can say "Before Abraham was I am."
Trinitarians often claim that if Jesus existed as a person before Abraham that he must therefore be God since only God could possibly exist before Abraham and still be existing. However, the folly of this argument is seen when it is realized that many angels existed before Abraham and they are still quite alive and well, including Satan and his angels, and it seems to this writer that we can be quite certain that this would not mean any of them are "God."
Jesus is the Word become flesh, the same Word which was with God in the beginning. This Word existed before Abraham. Once the Word became flesh, henceforth and thereafter that flesh named Jesus could then say that he existed before Abraham because the Word which has existed before Abraham had become that flesh named Jesus. In other words, when Jesus made this statement, the Word which had existed before Abraham had become an equivalent thing to the man Jesus. Whatever had been true of the Word is now true of Jesus.
C. The Trinitarian Blasphemy Claim
Trinitarian apologists have an unwarranted interpretation of John 8:58. They claim that these Jews understood Jesus was claiming to be YAHWEH and that is why they wanted to stone him. They will further claim that these Jews would not have attempted to stone Jesus unless he was claiming to be God. However, we shall soon see this is quite ridiculous. They also stoned Stephen. Was Stephen claiming to be God too? The Jews completely understood through John's gospel that he was claiming to be God's Son, that is, YAHWEH's son and that is what really irritated them. This can be seen quite clearly at John 19:7 where the Jews finally charged him with claiming to be the Son of God. At John 5:18 we discover the Jews want to kill Jesus because he is claiming that God was his own Father. And if we look closer and read further we find at John 8:41 Jesus and the Jews having a bit of a showdown and these Jews themselves claimed God was their Father. The difference was that Jesus was claiming to be God's Son in the sense that he was a person conceived by a divine father and they were not and this is why they wanted to kill him. Jesus was affording himself a status higher than these Jewish rulers of Israel and this was a major cause for jealousy and anger. Indeed, Mark tells us plainly this is why they conspired to hand him over. And in the end they conspired to have him arrested and brought to trial for claiming to be the Son of God their Father. Anything which was perceived to be defiling God's name was considered blasphemy. One did not need to claim to be God to blaspheme his name.
To claim that these men would only stone Jesus if he was claiming to be God, not only ignores the motives that men of the same stock had when they stoned Stephen, it also assumes that these men were righteous Law abiding Jews and it also completely ignores what Jesus had just said about these men. He had called them children of the devil and as such indicated they were liars and murderers.
You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 8:44.
These were the men who conspired to murder the son of God. They didn't need a Law to want him dead. We are also told in the Scriptures that they killed an innocent man.
[SIZE=+1]Analysis of the Claim[/SIZE]
1. The Context
The Jews had asked Jesus if he claimed to be greater than their forefather Abraham. In their minds, there was no one greater among them or any other Jew greater than Abraham who was counted as a friend of God. It was for this reason they made claims like, "we have Abraham as our father" to justify themselves.
Do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. (Matthew 3:9).
2. Before means Greater
Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am." In this selfsame Gospel, John gives us the very principle believed by Jews which brought them to this anger:
John testified concerning him and cried out saying, "This is he of whom I said, 'He who comes before me has precedencebecause he was before me.'" (1:15; cf. 1:30).
Obviously, this is the reason the Jews were angry at Jesus and wanted to stone him and not because they thought he was claiming to be Yahweh. These Jews had just asked Jesus, "Are you greater than our father Abraham?" Jesus' answer at John 8:58 was, "." This is what angered the Jews. He was not only claiming to be greater than these Jews themselves,> but greater than their father Abraham who they considered to be greater than all of them. They knew that because he was claiming to be the Son of God that Jesus was claiming not only to be greater than them, which really angered them, but now he was illustrating he was greater than Abraham, and none of them would dare to ever make such a claim for themselves. This incited huge jealousy and anger among them. The whole world was following after Jesus and this was not only threatening their role as leaders but Jesus was also instructing the people they were not doing things right against the Jewish establishment. Jesus was before Abraham and thus greater than Abraham. And this is why they wanted to stone him and finally charged him, not with claiming to be "God," but claiming to be the Son of God. And of course, these Jews were not Trinitarians who presumed the term "Son of God" meant Jesus was also "God."
He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God. (John 8:47)
Was John the Apostle lying when he called Jesus God in John 1? How about Revelation 1 when Jesus is called the Alpha and the Omega? Was the Apostle Paul lying when he called Jesus the Creator in Colossians 1:14-17?
I've already demonstrated from Scripture how Jesus pre-existed his incarnation.
I do not fully understand the Godhead, but it is Scriptural. Three distinct persons in one God
I understand the confusion over this because the Scriptures present Jesus as both the "Son of God" and YHWH Creator. Clearly Jesus was pre-existant and claimed to be the "I AM" - the pre-existant one.
Jesus is the "image of the invisible God" (1 Cor 1:14-17), "God"(John 1), the "Alpha and the Omega" (Revelation 1)(Zechariah 12).
Jesus was God born into his creation as a Man. He is a distinct person but at one with the Father. The Holy Spirit is also called God.
Jesus says he "came down from Heaven".
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3
John 3:13, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11),
Enoch was translated that he should not see death" (Hebrews 11:5),
God took him" (Genesis 5:24),
Moses appeared in the transfiguration with Jesus (Matthew 17:3).
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