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You are wrong on every point. You do not understand these spiritual matters. What a shame. You are missing out on the Hidden manner and you are leading others to do the same.
Then you must now make the claim that the sources I will list further down this post are wrong also.
You claim that you have been given hidden manna. You claim that you have been given a white stone with a secret name written on it that only you know. Moderator cut: sarcastic
Do you then also make the claim that you have eaten of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God? Do you claim that you have been given the morning star? Do you claim that you have been made a pillar in the temple of God? Do you also claim that you are now ruling with Christ.
The hidden manna, the white stone with a name on it that only the one to whom it is given knows, are eternal rewards given at the judgement seat of Christ to the believer who advances to spiritual maturity. They are not rewards which are given now.
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I said you are are born again but have not yet come to understand these things yet. Read again what I said. You are implying that you know all these things already because you have the Spirit. I only said you do not understand all that you think you do, even though you are born again.
You do not understand because even though you have the Spirit your Spiritual mind lags behind and you understand them only in a carnal mind way. You eat of the hidden manner all the time but do not understand that you do. You and every Christian does. If you where to say you don't then why do you teach? All spiritual things of Christ are a "mystery hidden within a mystery" and "hidden" because they are spiritually discerned.
I do know my new name but you do not. You have a new name also but you have yet to discover it.
I am Holy and have overcome the wicked one many times over. You seem to think it impossible. Having a perfected heart that is moving forward is not the same as already having obtained perfection. No one has except Christ.
It is apparent you do not understand the scripture that says, "He has perfected forever, those who have come to Him" which includes you.
I understand the difference between positional sanctification, experiential sanctification, and ultimate sanctification quite well.
As to the arrogance of your statements above, see my comment at the bottom of the post.
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There are the physical heavens and the Spiritual Heavens.
The Bible speaks of three heavens. I have already given the scripture on it.
C. I. Scofield writes...
2(12:2) The ''third heaven'' is the abode of God, the first heaven being that of the clouds, and the second heaven that of the stars.
New Scofield Reference Edition, footnote for 2 Cor 12:2, p. 1261.
The rewards of eternal life are many here and now besides the final reward.
1COR 3:14 "If any man's work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1COR 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." He doesn't enjoy his Christianity as he should because he lacks prayer unto guidance. But his reward is Christ Himself at the end. So you see that there are rewards here and now but every one gets the same reward at the end.
MT 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny."
1 Cor 3:14-15 refers to the judgement seat of Christ which will take place for the church-age believer in heaven after the rapture of the church, prior to the tribulation.
The rewards being spoken of in Revelation chapter 2 are referring to the rewards given to the church-age believer at the judgment seat. Not to rewards given now.
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Paradise is not in the Third Heaven. They are two different places:
2COR 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows, such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
2COR 12:3 And I knewsuch a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows,
2COR 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." And Such a man means another man like/such the first man but he went to a different place. Or see it this way. Paul would not have had to repeat himself saying "whether in the body, or out of the body" if he were talking of the same man.
Paradise is the third heaven. Theologians understand that. The pastors I know of understand that. Why do you not? You pride yourself on what you think you understand, so attempt to understand this.
In 2 Corinthians 12 1-4, Paul is stating how he was caught up into the third heaven. How he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. Paul is referring to the same place with both statements.
Here is what Matthew Henry says about it;
This third heaven is called paradise (v. 4), in allusion to the earthly paradise out of which Adam was driven for his transgression; it is called the paradise of God (Rev. 2:7), signifying to us that by Christ we are restored to all the joys and honours we lost by sin, yea, to much better. The apostle does not mention what he saw in the third heaven or paradise, but tells us that he heard unspeakable words, such as it is not possible for a man to utter-such are the sublimity of the matter and our unacquaintedness with the language of the upper world: nor was it lawful to utter those words, because, while we are here in this world, we have a more sure word of prophecy than such visions and revelations. 2 Corinthians 12:1 Bible Commentary
Here is a portion of the study note in the NASB Study Bible regarding 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. 'caught up to the third heaven ... caught up into Paradise.'
The 'Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by the Faculty of Dallas Seminary ' states that Paradise is the third Heaven.
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I am not a universalist. I never even knew what they thought until I came to this forum. So I do not know what you talking about. I am not a Baptist, Methodist or any other denominational name. I am only a Christian who fellowships with those who believe in Christ whether they got it all together or not.
I said that you are using the same tactics that Universalists do, and showing the same arrogance that Universalists display, when they claim that they have a higher understanding of spiritual things then those who proclaim the reality of the unbelievers eternal separation from God. This post is full of your claim to having a higher understanding of spiritual things. Yet, you don't even understand that the three heavens refer to the atmosphere, the stellar universe, and the third heaven which is where Paradise is. I have shown you that theologians say that it is. If you maintain your position, you must now claim that you have a higher understanding of spiritual matters then C. I. Scofield, the theologians at Dallas Theological Seminary, and Matthew Henry, who have stated the same thing that I did. That the three heavens are the atmosphere, the stellar universe, and the third heaven which is Paradise.
Do you wish to make the claim that you have a better understanding of spiritual matters then them?
You have made this post about how spiritually advanced you think you are.
I have given you Scripture, and what theologians have to say, to back up what I have said. I don't blow my own horn about how spiritually mature I think I am. Paul, even after having written some of his epistles did not consider himself to have reached spiritual maturity at that point.
I recommend that you get yourself under the teaching ministry of a prepared pastor/teacher who can correct your misunderstanding of things. And get rid of the 'I am more spiritually advanced then you are' attitude.
reading the recent posts of this thread, I seem to see that there is some debate about whether or not to "fear" God.
As I see it, there are two types of fear, and they are not the same thing at all. Now, I'm not a greek scholar and I don't pretend to be. It's enough that I can speak two languages already.
However, reading the NT verses in which we find the word "fear," and with what I feel is the Spirit of the Almighty Creator within me, I would say this: that to "fear God" means to "honor" and "have respect for" God. The unbeliever (which I myself once was) does not give God His proper respect and honor. He believes he is king of his world.
But when we come to understand that God is above and we are below; that He is the Creator and we are the created, then there is a sense of respect and reverence for Him. I believe this is the meaning behind the word "fear" used in verses like 1 Pet. 2:17.
This "fear" or "respect" is different than the fear mentioned in 1 John 4:18. Imo. As I see it, this verse refers to fear that comes from being afraid or terrified. It is a "cold" fear, a fear that can easily to violent and hasty actions.
So, I think there are two different types of "fear" in the NT. Perhaps the English language doesn't translate it well, but I believe in my heart that there is a difference. And I believe what's in my heart, because that is where Christ Jesus dwells!
Man naturally thinks and dwells on that which he fears, when he does not know perfect love. Death judgement,punishment and eternal hell are a constant thought of the man who does not know perfect love.
Those who are perfected in love think about noble,right,pure,lovely,excellent,admirable and praiseworthy things, for example....this trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance can easily be considered noble,right,pure,lovely,excellent,admirable and a praiseworthy thing,but considered of the devil for thinking such a thing by those who are still in fear.
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing.
Of course, anyone can say that they follow Jesus. But their actions declare who they are truly following, because actions cannot lie.
Again you are wrong on all counts. I said nothing of 7 heavens, Christ is the "Morning Star" and all believers have Him. "The White Stone' is not a physical stone just like "garment" is not. The Scripture that says, "put on the Lord Jesus Christ" as a garment of "white linen". I eat of the Tree of Life here and now and latter in Paradise. I said He is in three places as the Scripture says, "In the midst of the street [New Jerusalem] and on each side of the river." You can't even interpret what I said let alone the Scriptures and you want me to sit under teachers like yourself.
No garya. I am not wrong on all counts. The Scriptures say there are three heavens - the atmosphere, the stellar universe, and the third heaven which is the throneroom of God, and where Paradise is located.
I never said that you mentioned anything about 7 heavens. That was a part of an excerpt I posted which explained that there are three heavens, and what those three heavens are. You disagreed with what the three heavens are even though I gave the scripture which states what they are. And I furthered backed what I said up with what Theologians say about it.
You have not eaten of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God. The Paradise of God is in the third heaven (Rev 2:7) You are not in the third heaven. Eating of the tree of life as mentioned in Rev 2:7 is a future event.
Those 'three places' you refer to, 'the midst of the street, and on each side of the river,' refer to the New Jerusalem. Revelation 22:1 speaks of a river of the water of life flowing from the throne of God and flowing down the middle of its street. Some interpret this to mean that there are a group of trees on each side of the river. Others think that the river of life is narrow and flows on both sides of the tree of life so that the branches hang down on both sides of the river.
What you are doing is allegorizing the references to the tree of life and applying it to yourself in the here and now. But the tree of life is a literal tree, and you have not eaten of it.
Regarding your comment about 'putting on Jesus Christ as a garment of white linen', Romans 13:14 says, 'But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.' At salvation, the believer is clothed with Jesus Christ (Positional sanctifcation) and therefore, they should conduct themselves accordingly (the process of Experiential sanctification). Gal 3:27 'For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. White garments in scripture always symbolize righteousness.
But there is a future aspect as Shown in Revelation 19:8 in which the bride in heaven following the judgment seat of Christ will be adorned in fine linen, which represents the righteous deeds of the saints. It could be described as a uniform of glory. Not every believer will be adorned equally. The uniform of some believers will be much more decorative, will shine more brightly, then the uniform of others based on their degree of spiritual growth. The believer will be rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ according to his divine production - his works.
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Paul was talking of two men that he knew who were caught up. You have taken your interpretation by tradition of your so called experts and run with it. The Scriptures were written for the common man not just for the so called experts of yours. Ask any English professor and he will tell you that Paul is not referring to himself but to another in the second person "he". The pillars are metaphors concerning spiritual strength in Christ.
GAL 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
No he was not speaking of two different men. Paul was referring to himself alone. Verse 3 links 2 Cor 12:2 with 2 Cor 12:4. 'And I know how such a man.' The man in verse 2 who was caught up into the third heaven is the 'such a man' who was caught up into Paradise. Paul is that man who was caught up into the third heaven which is where Paradise is. Verse 5 further clarifies that fact. 'On behalf of such a man.' Which man? The same man who is spoken of in both verses 2 and 3.
Finally, 2 Corinthians 12:7 confirms that Paul was talking about himself. Because of the greatness of what was revealed to Paul when he was caught up into heaven, he was given a thorn in the flesh to keep him from exalting himself.
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REV 21:22 "And I saw no Temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the Temple of it." There is no literal Temple in Heaven, hence no literal pillars because Christ is the Temple. So then, seeing that there is no Temple, how shall He make us to be a pillar in His Temple in the future which thing you allude to as being physical but I do not. Everything you say is about the future as if Christ has no value for us now.
The reference to the believer being made a pillar in the temple of God (Rev 3:11) is symbolic of the believers position, rank, status, in the eternal future. The entire New Jerusalem will be the ultimate temple. Revelation 21:22 'And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the almighty, and the Lamb, are its temple. There will be no equality in the eternal state. Some believers will have many rewards, decorations, and priviledges which other believers will not have.
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You are carnal in mind to all spiritual things. You and your teachers are as ignorant of the Truth as they come. God does not and can not bear witness by His Spirit to the nonsense that you say. You come on this board pretending to know all and that you are a teacher. You are not. Your teachings are about your carnal interpretations, not about Christ because you butcher the Word to no value.
It does not display maturity either spiritually, or as a person, by attacking those with whom you disagree. Again you resort to the 'you are carnal and cannot understand spiritual things' argument. So you actually do indeed consider yourself to be more spiritually advanced then men such as C. I. Scofield, and the theologians at Dallas Theological Seminary and other seminaries who train men who have the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher so that they can lead their congregations to spiritual maturity? You do actually consider yourself to be more spiritually advanced than doctrinally prepared pastor/teachers?
No garya. I do not pretend to know everything. Nor have I ever called myself a teacher. I do post things which I have learned from a study of the word of God under the teaching ministry of doctrinally prepared pastors, under the filling of the Holy Spirit.
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I do not pride myself in any thing of the Lord but rather enjoy as we all do and should. It is you that has made it an issue of how spiritually advanced your experts are and by association you think you are also. Yes, I do have spiritual understanding as others do and I share as others do. I don't take pride in the things of God but joy as they are a Gift and I am not ashamed to share them. There is a difference between arrogance and confidence. It is written, "Cast not away your confidence which has great reward." Confidence can look like arrogance but only if you disagree and so I have no doubts as to why you say I am.
No garya. You disregard the knowledge of men who have had extensive training and preparation in studying the Bible. You just said above, ''you and your teachers are as ignorant as they come.'' You do realize don't you that the gift of pastor/teacher is a spiritual gift given by the Holy Spirit to certain men for the purpose of bringing their congregation to spiritual maturity? You are implying that Lewis Sperry Chafer who founded Dallas Theological seminary, and who taught theology, was ignorant of the Truth.
Nor have I made an issue of how spiritually advanced my teachers are. But they are doctrinally prepared to teach the word of God.
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1JN 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith."
1JN 5:5 Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?"
REV 1:6 "And has [present tense] made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."
The believer overcomes the world when he believes in Christ, but it is only the spiritually mature believer who overcomes and achieves victory in the angelic conflict.
The church is a kingdom of priests. A royal priesthood. This is one of the differences between the dispensation of the church and other dispensations. Every believer is a priest and therefore has the right to represent himself before God.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that there are eternal rewards which will be given at the judgment seat of Christ in heaven, as opposed to temporal blessings the spiritually advancing believer may enjoy. The references to hidden manna, and the white stone with a secret name refer to eternal rewards. Not to temporal rewards given now.
No garya. I am not wrong on all counts. The Scriptures say there are three heavens - the atmosphere, the stellar universe, and the third heaven which is the throneroom of God, and where Paradise is located.
I never said that you mentioned anything about 7 heavens. That was a part of an excerpt I posted which explained that there are three heavens, and what those three heavens are. You disagreed with what the three heavens are even though I gave the scripture which states what they are. And I furthered backed what I said up with what Theologians say about it.
You have not eaten of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God. The Paradise of God is in the third heaven (Rev 2:7) You are not in the third heaven. Eating of the tree of life as mentioned in Rev 2:7 is a future event.
Those 'three places' you refer to, 'the midst of the street, and on each side of the river,' refer to the New Jerusalem. Revelation 22:1 speaks of a river of the water of life flowing from the throne of God and flowing down the middle of its street. Some interpret this to mean that there are a group of trees on each side of the river. Others think that the river of life is narrow and flows on both sides of the tree of life so that the branches hang down on both sides of the river.
What you are doing is allegorizing the references to the tree of life and applying it to yourself in the here and now. But the tree of life is a literal tree, and you have not eaten of it.
Regarding your comment about 'putting on Jesus Christ as a garment of white linen', Romans 13:14 says, 'But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.' At salvation, the believer is clothed with Jesus Christ (Positional sanctifcation) and therefore, they should conduct themselves accordingly (the process of Experiential sanctification). Gal 3:27 'For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. White garments in scripture always symbolize righteousness.
But there is a future aspect as Shown in Revelation 19:8 in which the bride in heaven following the judgment seat of Christ will be adorned in fine linen, which represents the righteous deeds of the saints. It could be described as a uniform of glory. Not every believer will be adorned equally. The uniform of some believers will be much more decorative, will shine more brightly, then the uniform of others based on their degree of spiritual growth. The believer will be rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ according to his divine production - his works.
No he was not speaking of two different men. Paul was referring to himself alone. Verse 3 links 2 Cor 12:2 with 2 Cor 12:4. 'And I know how such a man.' The man in verse 2 who was caught up into the third heaven is the 'such a man' who was caught up into Paradise. Paul is that man who was caught up into the third heaven which is where Paradise is. Verse 5 further clarifies that fact. 'On behalf of such a man.' Which man? The same man who is spoken of in both verses 2 and 3.
Finally, 2 Corinthians 12:7 confirms that Paul was talking about himself. Because of the greatness of what was revealed to Paul when he was caught up into heaven, he was given a thorn in the flesh to keep him from exalting himself.
The reference to the believer being made a pillar in the temple of God (Rev 3:11) is symbolic of the believers position, rank, status, in the eternal future. The entire New Jerusalem will be the ultimate temple. Revelation 21:22 'And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the almighty, and the Lamb, are its temple. There will be no equality in the eternal state. Some believers will have many rewards, decorations, and priviledges which other believers will not have.
It does not display maturity either spiritually, or as a person, by attacking those with whom you disagree. Again you resort to the 'you are carnal and cannot understand spiritual things' argument. So you actually do indeed consider yourself to be more spiritually advanced then men such as C. I. Scofield, and the theologians at Dallas Theological Seminary and other seminaries who train men who have the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher so that they can lead their congregations to spiritual maturity? You do actually consider yourself to be more spiritually advanced than doctrinally prepared pastor/teachers?
No garya. I do not pretend to know everything. Nor have I ever called myself a teacher. I do post things which I have learned from a study of the word of God under the teaching ministry of doctrinally prepared pastors, under the filling of the Holy Spirit.
No garya. You disregard the knowledge of men who have had extensive training and preparation in studying the Bible. You just said above, ''you and your teachers are as ignorant as they come.'' You do realize don't you that the gift of pastor/teacher is a spiritual gift given by the Holy Spirit to certain men for the purpose of bringing their congregation to spiritual maturity? You are implying that Lewis Sperry Chafer who founded Dallas Theological seminary, and who taught theology, was ignorant of the Truth.
Nor have I made an issue of how spiritually advanced my teachers are. But they are doctrinally prepared to teach the word of God.
The believer overcomes the world when he believes in Christ, but it is only the spiritually mature believer who overcomes and achieves victory in the angelic conflict.
The church is a kingdom of priests. A royal priesthood. This is one of the differences between the dispensation of the church and other dispensations. Every believer is a priest and therefore has the right to represent himself before God.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that there are eternal rewards which will be given at the judgment seat of Christ in heaven, as opposed to temporal blessings the spiritually advancing believer may enjoy. The references to hidden manna, and the white stone with a secret name refer to eternal rewards. Not to temporal rewards given now.
Reference is to post 207.
Yours is a salvation based on works that puffs one up to think they are better and deserve more rewards. Jesus said, "I am your exceeding great reward." In Him is no darkness at all and in Heaven all "shall be like Him" because we will see Him as He is and the very ability to see Him as He is, means that we all will be full of His perfect light not some lessor reward.
We are all equal and will "get payed" the same at the end of the day. The Scripture says that this type of speech is only spoken in these ways because of the infirmity of our flesh in understanding spiritual things.
ROM 6:19 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:"
MT 20:10 "But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man am penny.
MT 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
MT 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do you no wrong: did not you agree with me for a penny?
MT 20:14 Take what is yours, and go your way: I will give unto this last, even as unto you.
MT 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with my own? Is your eye evil, because I am good?" Is it?
REV 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [singular reward] is with me, to give every man according as his work [again singular because He counts all works as one] shall be." He says it is a singular reward because the reward is the fullness of Christ Himself. There is no greater reward then that, and we all get Him, not some lessor thing then you are saying. What an insult! If you could just get it right then many would be blessed.
Yours is a salvation based on works that puffs one up to think they are better and deserve more rewards. Jesus said, "I am your exceeding great reward." In Him is no darkness at all and in Heaven all "shall be like Him" because we will see Him as He is and the very ability to see Him as He is, means that we all will be full of His perfect light not some lessor reward.
To the contrary. Eternal Salvation is though faith alone in Christ alone. Not on the basis of works. Have you so soon forgotten about my thread concerning what Jesus, Paul, and James meant by faith? ---> Jesus, Paul and James on faith and works.
But the believer is rewarded for his divine production at the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:12 'Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13] each man's work will become evident; for the daywill show it, becaus it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14] If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. 15] If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss (of reward); but he hmself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.
2 Cor 5:10 'For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, tha each one must may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Paul understood the issue of receiving eternal rewards.
1 Cor 9:24 'Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25] And everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26] Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box i such a way, as not beating the air; 27] but I buffet m body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified (from eternal rewards).
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We are all equal and will "get payed" the same at the end of the day. The Scripture says that this type of speech is only spoken in these ways because of the infirmity of our flesh in understanding spiritual things.
ROM 6:19 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:"
MT 20:10 "But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man am penny.
MT 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
MT 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do you no wrong: did not you agree with me for a penny?
MT 20:14 Take what is yours, and go your way: I will give unto this last, even as unto you.
MT 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with my own? Is your eye evil, because I am good?" Is it?
REV 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [singular reward] is with me, to give every man according as his work [again singular because He counts all works as one] shall be." He says it is a singular reward because the reward is the fullness of Christ Himself. There is no greater reward then that, and we all get Him, not some lessor thing then you are saying. What an insult! If you could just get it right then many would be blessed.
I am speaking in terms of not being equal in rank, status, and privileges in eternity. Some believers will have a great many eternal rewards, while others will have few.
Doctrine of Eternal Rewards
1. Definition: The application use of the crown (stefanoV) as an analogy to
communicate the vividness of eternal rewards for believers in the 1st Century AD –
Phil 4:1; 1 Thess 2:19; 2 Tim 4: 7-8; 1 Pet 5:2 -4; Rev 2:10, 3:11; Jam 1:12
2. The frame of reference for rewards in the 1st century was from atelic events.
3. Atelic’s were crowned with reeves
4. Soldiers were rewarded with corona (LATIN) or crowns at the
end of each military campaign.
5. The Latin word corona is the Greek word for stefanoV –
the highest decoration in the Roman Army.
6. There is seven corona available to the Roman soldier –
a. Corona Obsidionalis is the highest reward for valor.
b. Corona Civicae rewarded for saving a life of a citizen in battle.
c. Corona Navalis a naval reward for the first marine to board an enemy ship.
d. Corona Muralis is a rewarded to the soldier first over the wall.
e. Corona Vallaris a reward to a Centurion heroic act in Battle – Triumphanis
7. Three decorations for the Roman soldier
a. Torque
b. Phalarae
c. Hasta Purae
d. Additional rewards were the Vexillum, a way to
display his rewards.
(from Aspects of Greek & Roman Life, by L. Siccus Demtans)
8. As there was a system of Rewards, there was a system of discipline
a. Decimation – every 10th man in a legion was stoned or clubbed to death.
b. Death penalty – received for insubordination or desertion.
c. Reduction in rank, fines & flogging
9. All discipline for the Believer is limited to time!
10. As military decorations for the soldier was privilege , so it is a privilege for the
Believer – 2 Cor 3:12, 5: 10
11. Only the Believer who executes the responsibility of “Church Age Believer
Priesthood” will be honored with eternal decorations and rewards – 2 Tim 2:12
12. There are three crowns available to the Believer.
a. The crown of righteousness – 2 Tim 4: 7-8,
b. The crown of life – Rev 2:10; Jam 1:12
c. The crown of Glory – 1 Pet 5:4
13. The crown of righteousness is rewarded for the Believer who persists in the
advancement to spiritual maturity. – 2 Tim 4: 7-8; 1 Thess 1:3
14. The crown of Life is rewarded to the Believer who endures life, even to the point of
death – Rev 2:10; Jam 1:12
15. The crown of Glory is a reward for the Pastor-Teachers, who exercises their spiritual
gift – 1 Pet 5:2-3; 2 Tim 4:2
As will be shown below, though it is tremendously serious with eternal ramifications, the Judgment Seat of Christ is not a place and time when the Lord will mete out punishment for sins committed by the child of God. Rather, it is a place where rewards will be given or lost depending on how a believer has lived his life for the Lord. Assurance of Eternal Rewards | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site
Readers refer to post #219
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-10-2011 at 10:07 AM..
To the contrary. Eternal Salvation is though faith alone in Christ alone. Not on the basis of works. Have you so soon forgotten about my thread concerning what Jesus, Paul, and James meant by faith? ---> Jesus, Paul and James on faith and works.
But the believer is rewarded for his divine production at the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:12 'Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13] each man's work will become evident; for the daywill show it, becaus it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14] If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. 15] If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss (of reward); but he hmself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.
2 Cor 5:10 'For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, tha each one must may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Paul understood the issue of receiving eternal rewards.
1 Cor 9:24 'Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25] And everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26] Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box i such a way, as not beating the air; 27] but I buffet m body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified (from eternal rewards).
I am speaking in terms of not being equal in rank, status, and privileges in eternity. Some believers will have a great many eternal rewards, while others will have few.
Doctrine of Eternal Rewards
1. Definition: The application use of the crown (stefanoV) as an analogy to
communicate the vividness of eternal rewards for believers in the 1st Century AD –
Phil 4:1; 1 Thess 2:19; 2 Tim 4: 7-8; 1 Pet 5:2 -4; Rev 2:10, 3:11; Jam 1:12
2. The frame of reference for rewards in the 1st century was from atelic events.
3. Atelic’s were crowned with reeves
4. Soldiers were rewarded with corona (LATIN) or crowns at the
end of each military campaign.
5. The Latin word corona is the Greek word for stefanoV –
the highest decoration in the Roman Army.
6. There is seven corona available to the Roman soldier –
a. Corona Obsidionalis is the highest reward for valor.
b. Corona Civicae rewarded for saving a life of a citizen in battle.
c. Corona Navalis a naval reward for the first marine to board an enemy ship.
d. Corona Muralis is a rewarded to the soldier first over the wall.
e. Corona Vallaris a reward to a Centurion heroic act in Battle – Triumphanis
7. Three decorations for the Roman soldier
a. Torque
b. Phalarae
c. Hasta Purae
d. Additional rewards were the Vexillum, a way to
display his rewards.
(from Aspects of Greek & Roman Life, by L. Siccus Demtans)
8. As there was a system of Rewards, there was a system of discipline
a. Decimation – every 10th man in a legion was stoned or clubbed to death.
b. Death penalty – received for insubordination or desertion.
c. Reduction in rank, fines & flogging
9. All discipline for the Believer is limited to time!
10. As military decorations for the soldier was privilege , so it is a privilege for the
Believer – 2 Cor 3:12, 5: 10
11. Only the Believer who executes the responsibility of “Church Age Believer
Priesthood” will be honored with eternal decorations and rewards – 2 Tim 2:12
12. There are three crowns available to the Believer.
a. The crown of righteousness – 2 Tim 4: 7-8,
b. The crown of life – Rev 2:10; Jam 1:12
c. The crown of Glory – 1 Pet 5:4
13. The crown of righteousness is rewarded for the Believer who persists in the
advancement to spiritual maturity. – 2 Tim 4: 7-8; 1 Thess 1:3
14. The crown of Life is rewarded to the Believer who endures life, even to the point of
death – Rev 2:10; Jam 1:12
15. The crown of Glory is a reward for the Pastor-Teachers, who exercises their spiritual
gift – 1 Pet 5:2-3; 2 Tim 4:2
As will be shown below, though it is tremendously serious with eternal ramifications, the Judgment Seat of Christ is not a place and time when the Lord will mete out punishment for sins committed by the child of God. Rather, it is a place where rewards will be given or lost depending on how a believer has lived his life for the Lord. Assurance of Eternal Rewards | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site
Readers refer to post #219
Yes, I know you believe in faith alone but your other doctrines cancel out what you say. You just can't see how others perceive what you say you believe vs what you are really saying. I say again, the Scriptures say, that those who worked in the Field of the Lord, all received a "penny". It is a singular reward [Christ Himself] but symbolized by many things.
Apparently you think those symbols mean different rewards but Jesus says He is the reward. A Crown of Life is Eternal Life in Christ and all believers have it no matter what symbol is used to describe it. The prize at the end of the race is Christ but even now, He is our Crown of Glory, Righteouness, and Life here and forever.
Why do you make it so complex and Jesus made it so simple? I'm a high school drop out but I think for the most part, people on this forum can understand what I am saying even if they might not agree. You however are making it soooo convoluted.
Yes, I know you believe in faith alone but your other doctrines cancel out what you say.
Reference is to post #222. No they do not. Refer back to the scripture listed.
Quote:
You just can't see how others perceive what you say you believe vs what you are really saying. I say again, the Scriptures say, that those who worked in the Field of the Lord, all received a "penny". It is a singular reward [Christ Himself] but symbolized by many things.
You are misapplying that passage. The doctrine of eternal rewards is well established.
Quote:
Apparently you think those symbols mean different rewards but Jesus says He is the reward. A Crown of Life is Eternal Life in Christ and all believers have it no matter what symbol is used to describe it. The prize at the end of the race is Christ but even now, He is our Crown of Glory, Righteouness, and Life here and forever.
The crowns are real as are the other eternal rewards.
1 Cor 3:12 'Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13] each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14] If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. 15] If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss (of reward); but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.
The believer's works of 'gold, silver, and precious stones' will be rewarded, while his works of 'wood, hay, and stubble' will be burned up.
2 Cor 5:10 'For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one must may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Paul understood the issue of receiving eternal rewards.
1 Cor 9:24 'Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25] And everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26] Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27] but I buffet m body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified (from eternal rewards).
Quote:
Why do you make it so complex and Jesus made it so simple? I'm a high school drop out but I think for the most part, people on this forum can understand what I am saying even if they might not agree. You however are making it soooo convoluted.
To the contrary. There is nothing complicated about it at all.
A person is saved through faith alone in Christ alone, and he is eternally rewarded for his spiritual production - his works.
Readers refer to post #222.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-10-2011 at 04:27 PM..
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