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God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, but because man would NOT obey His voice God had to do that which He NEVER intended in the first place.
KJV
Jer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.
If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been no need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted/made provision/weaved a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.
We see this very principal brought out in
1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins. If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.
And I think the reason God commanded these sacrifices and offerings was so that the people would see what a heinous act it was that they must slay an innocent life for their own sinful ways.
Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.
Now we know that the sacrifices given in the OT are a shadow of Christ sacrifice for us. Thus, God says that when He brought the people out of Egypt (God taking man from the dust of the earth OUTSIDE the garden[Egypt] and putting man into the garden) He did NOT command concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
Why?
Because He commanded them to Obey my voice.
The sacrifice and offerings only came into play AFTER the disobedience of man. Thus, He says to obey is better than sacrifice.
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, He wanted obedience, but because man disobeyed His voice, He gave them a means of coming before Him through sacrifice.
Hosea 6:6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
God did NOT desire sacrifice; therefore God did not desire the sacrifice of His son.
Psalm 40:6
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Again it say sacrifice and offering God did NOT desire, but it even go farther and says that they were NOT required.
If God planned all along for Jesus to be sacrificed for us why do scriptures say that offerings were NOT required?
Because if man had of obeyed His voice sacrifices and offering would NOT have been required.
Psalm 51:16
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Again we see the same thing, God did NOT desire sacrifice.
Hebrews 10:5-6
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sinthou hast had no pleasure.
Jesus said it Himself, sacrifice and offering God did NOT want, and He(God) found NO pleasure in them.
Now we all know that God had pleasure in the outcome of Christ sacrifice, so what is Jesus saying here? Is He not saying that God had NO pleasure in the need of sacrificing His son.
Why did He(God) have NO pleasure in sacrificing His son?
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, but because man would NOT obey His voice God had to do that which He NEVER intended in the first place.
KJV
Jer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.
If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been no need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted/made provision/weaved a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.
We see this very principal brought out in
1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins. If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.
And I think the reason God commanded these sacrifices and offerings was so that the people would see what a heinous act it was that they must slay an innocent life for their own sinful ways.
Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.
Now we know that the sacrifices given in the OT are a shadow of Christ sacrifice for us. Thus, God says that when He brought the people out of Egypt (God taking man from the dust of the earth OUTSIDE the garden[Egypt] and putting man into the garden) He did NOT command concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
Why?
Because He commanded them to Obey my voice.
The sacrifice and offerings only came into play AFTER the disobedience of man. Thus, He says to obey is better than sacrifice.
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, He wanted obedience, but because man disobeyed His voice, He gave them a means of coming before Him through sacrifice.
Hosea 6:6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
God did NOT desire sacrifice; therefore God did not desire the sacrifice of His son.
Psalm 40:6
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Again it say sacrifice and offering God did NOT desire, but it even go farther and says that they were NOT required.
If God planned all along for Jesus to be sacrificed for us why do scriptures say that offerings were NOT required?
Because if man had of obeyed His voice sacrifices and offering would NOT have been required.
Psalm 51:16
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Again we see the same thing, God did NOT desire sacrifice.
Hebrews 10:5-6
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sinthou hast had no pleasure.
Jesus said it Himself, sacrifice and offering God did NOT want, and He(God) found NO pleasure in them.
Now we all know that God had pleasure in the outcome of Christ sacrifice, so what is Jesus saying here? Is He not saying that God had NO pleasure in the need of sacrificing His son.
Why did He(God) have NO pleasure in sacrificing His son?
Because He wanted obedience and NOT sacrifice.
Interesting view. Then Paul's idea that Jesus overcame death by obedience is correct but his idea that his shed blood redeemed sin is not?
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, but because man would NOT obey His voice God had to do that which He NEVER intended in the first place.
KJV
Jer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.
If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been no need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted/made provision/weaved a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.
We see this very principal brought out in
1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins. If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.
And I think the reason God commanded these sacrifices and offerings was so that the people would see what a heinous act it was that they must slay an innocent life for their own sinful ways.
Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.
Now we know that the sacrifices given in the OT are a shadow of Christ sacrifice for us. Thus, God says that when He brought the people out of Egypt (God taking man from the dust of the earth OUTSIDE the garden[Egypt] and putting man into the garden) He did NOT command concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
Why?
Because He commanded them to Obey my voice.
The sacrifice and offerings only came into play AFTER the disobedience of man. Thus, He says to obey is better than sacrifice.
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, He wanted obedience, but because man disobeyed His voice, He gave them a means of coming before Him through sacrifice.
Hosea 6:6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
God did NOT desire sacrifice; therefore God did not desire the sacrifice of His son.
Psalm 40:6
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Again it say sacrifice and offering God did NOT desire, but it even go farther and says that they were NOT required.
If God planned all along for Jesus to be sacrificed for us why do scriptures say that offerings were NOT required?
Because if man had of obeyed His voice sacrifices and offering would NOT have been required.
Psalm 51:16
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Again we see the same thing, God did NOT desire sacrifice.
Hebrews 10:5-6
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sinthou hast had no pleasure.
Jesus said it Himself, sacrifice and offering God did NOT want, and He(God) found NO pleasure in them.
Now we all know that God had pleasure in the outcome of Christ sacrifice, so what is Jesus saying here? Is He not saying that God had NO pleasure in the need of sacrificing His son.
Why did He(God) have NO pleasure in sacrificing His son?
Because He wanted obedience and NOT sacrifice.
This is contrary to God's nature to say that God did not want to sacrifice His Son. After all, God knows the numbers of the hairs on our head. Not even a sparrow falls to the ground without the Father. Obviously, God not only knew that His Son would be sacrificed but purposed it.
It all began in the beginning when God planned for Adam to eat of the forbidden fruit.
This is contrary to God's nature to say that God did not want to sacrifice His Son. After all, God knows the numbers of the hairs on our head. Not even a sparrow falls to the ground without the Father. Obviously, God not only knew that His Son would be sacrificed but purposed it.
It all began in the beginning when God planned for Adam to eat of the forbidden fruit.
I agree with this. Did/Does He take pleasure in sacrifice and pain? Not the way a serial killer does, but I agree, this was all a part of His plan and an amazing wonderful plan it is. Glory to God in the highest for showing us what deep and abiding love He holds for His creation.
Gods nature is LOVE, murdering ones own son is not love.
Our HEAD is Jesus Christ, it is His hairs that are numbered.
Without the Fathers notice, that does not mean He kills the sparrows.
God surely knew man would kill His son, but that does not mean it was what God wanted.
Obedience is BETTER then sacrifice.
God did no such thing, if you had of understood my post you could have seen how much in error you are concerning this.
There are two ways to gain the knowledge of good and evil.
One is through disobedience in eating, the other is God writing the laws in our hearts though obedience.
Adam choose the wrong way.
There is a WAY that seemeth right unto MAN, but the end thereof are the WAY of DEATH.
Gods WAYS are not MANS WAYS
Gods WAYS always lead to LIFE, MANS ways always leads to DEATH.
Now unless you believe God is a man, then you should realise DEATH has NOTHING to do with Gods WAY.
Sorry Paul but this scripture matches what you believe
There is a WAY that seemeth right unto MAN, but the end thereof are the WAY of DEATH.
DEATH might seem right to you, but it is not Gods WAY.
If God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit then they would have put the cherub in front of tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Ask yourself, why didn't God do that in the FIRST PLACE as He did to the Tree of Life after they ate of the forbidden fruit?:
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Couldn't God have just done that in teh beginning to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? - of course He could.
Anything else is to suggest that God was UNAWARE (meaning not ALL knowing) or that His purpose and plan failed (meaning He is not ALL powerful).
If God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit then they would have put the cherub in front of tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Ask yourself, why didn't God do that in the FIRST PLACE as He did to the Tree of Life after they ate of the forbidden fruit?:
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Couldn't God have just done that in teh beginning to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? - of course He could.
Anything else is to suggest that God was UNAWARE (meaning not ALL knowing) or that His purpose and plan failed (meaning He is not ALL powerful).
God places before us the choice of LIFE or DEATH, putting something to block that choice would not be a choice.
Your understanding of all powerful and all knowing is flawed. You have read in other threads where I have covered this, but because you still think MANS WAYS are Gods WAYS you misunderstand His power and All knowing aspect.
Did not Adam choose DEATH?
Is not Adam a MAN?
Is MANS WAYS Gods WAYS?
When you answer those questions honestly then you will begin to understand, there is a WAY that seemeth RIGHT unto a MAN, but the end thereof are the WAY of DEATH.
Paul, death might seem RIGHT to you, but it is because you are looking at MANS WAY (all MANS WAYS are RIGHT in their own eyes) and NOT Gods WAY.
Your way is right in your own eyes brother but NOT in Gods eyes.
God places before us the choice of LIFE or DEATH, putting something to block that choice would not be a choice.
Your understanding of all powerful and all knowing is flawed. You have read in other threads where I have covered this, but because you still think MANS WAYS are Gods WAYS you misunderstand His power and All knowing aspect.
Did not Adam choose DEATH?
Is not Adam a MAN?
Is MANS WAYS Gods WAYS?
When you answer those questions honestly then you will begin to understand, there is a WAY that seemeth RIGHT unto a MAN, but the end thereof are the WAY of DEATH.
Paul, death might seem RIGHT to you, but it is because you are looking at MANS WAY (all MANS WAYS are RIGHT in their own eyes) and NOT Gods WAY.
Your way is right in your own eyes brother but NOT in Gods eyes.
God gave the choice to ancient Israel to show man that He couldn't choose God. And they showed that to be true with the fact that they would not choose Him. He then sent His Son to choose whom He would.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Mans ways are as God created him. Incomplete. Still being fashioned.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
That scripture above refutes you entire argument. It shows that mans vanity is because of God who created him such. It doesn't mean that is what God's end purpose is for man but that is who man is for now, UNTIL God finishes His purpose in all of us.
So you see there is a way in man that seems right unto him because that man cannot know another way unless God decides to impart that way.
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