God did NOT want to sacrifice His son (Leviticus, prayer, priest)
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I agree that God doesn't direct man to sin but God created man subject to vanity. So man only knows to sin. So God uses the sins of the man to accomplish His Good will. This is what you don't seem to comprehend Pneuma. Case in point is that of evil intentions of Joseph's brothers to leave him in a pit. We know that later this event would lead to saving those same brothers from famine.
God did not subject man to vanity until after man was disobedient.
Paul if man only knows sin, how is it that those who do not know Christ can fulfill the law?
Again your understanding is in error, God weaved what Josephs brethren did into something good.
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Ok, remember, you said that issue is faulty. That means to say someone is carnal before they are Spiritual is a faulty thing to you. So tell me how someone becomes carnal?
By following the lust of the flesh.
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Yes, I am under the impression that all men are carnal before they are Spiritual. And yes that included Adam.
So a son of God is carnal then according to your understanding, however scripture will not bare that out.
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And yes, I'm saying that man's nature in unable to follow God.
Mans nature is spirit, soul and body Paul, what you are saying is man is incapable of following the spirit, which again scripture will not bare out.
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But we shall continue to debate this as this thread continues.
Later, I will be gone for the next few days but will get back to you when I can.
Paul if man only knows sin, how is it that those who do not know Christ can fulfill the law.
They can't. Nobody can fulfill the law but Christ. Christ has the COPYRIGHT on all GOOD Works.
Again your understanding is in error, God weaved what Josephs brethren did into something good.
Scriptures show it was God that directed even the event that brought Joseph into captivity:
Gen 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.
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By following the lust of the flesh
So if to become carnal is to fulfill the lusts of the flesh are you telling me there is anyone other than Christ that never fulfilled the lusts of the flesh before they became righteous?
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So a son of God is carnal then according to your understanding, however scripture will not bare that out.Mans nature is spirit, soul and body Paul, what you are saying is man is incapable of following the spirit, which again scripture will not bare out.
No, that is a strawman. I said man is carnal BEFORE he is Spiritual.
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Later, I will be gone for the next few days but will get back to you when I can.
No problem, pneuma. I'll continue to discuss with others in your absense.
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, but because man would NOT obey His voice God had to do that which He NEVER intended in the first place.
KJV
Jer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.
If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been no need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted/made provision/weaved a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.
We see this very principal brought out in
1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins. If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.
And I think the reason God commanded these sacrifices and offerings was so that the people would see what a heinous act it was that they must slay an innocent life for their own sinful ways.
Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.
Now we know that the sacrifices given in the OT are a shadow of Christ sacrifice for us. Thus, God says that when He brought the people out of Egypt (God taking man from the dust of the earth OUTSIDE the garden[Egypt] and putting man into the garden) He did NOT command concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
Why?
Because He commanded them to Obey my voice.
The sacrifice and offerings only came into play AFTER the disobedience of man. Thus, He says to obey is better than sacrifice.
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, He wanted obedience, but because man disobeyed His voice, He gave them a means of coming before Him through sacrifice.
Hosea 6:6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
God did NOT desire sacrifice; therefore God did not desire the sacrifice of His son.
Psalm 40:6
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Again it say sacrifice and offering God did NOT desire, but it even go farther and says that they were NOT required.
If God planned all along for Jesus to be sacrificed for us why do scriptures say that offerings were NOT required?
Because if man had of obeyed His voice sacrifices and offering would NOT have been required.
Psalm 51:16
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Again we see the same thing, God did NOT desire sacrifice.
Hebrews 10:5-6
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sinthou hast had no pleasure.
Jesus said it Himself, sacrifice and offering God did NOT want, and He(God) found NO pleasure in them.
Now we all know that God had pleasure in the outcome of Christ sacrifice, so what is Jesus saying here? Is He not saying that God had NO pleasure in the need of sacrificing His son.
Why did He(God) have NO pleasure in sacrificing His son?
Because He wanted obedience and NOT sacrifice.
All of these verses are out of context regarding whether God intended to sacrifice His Son from the very beginning. For example, Pneuma doesn't explain that Isaac was prepared as a sacrifice.
Here is another thing that Pneuma mentions but is not understood:
1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
In that verse "obey is better than sacrifice" is ACTUALLY a sacrifice. But not of physical things but of that which is Spiritual. You see God does indeed require a sacrifice. And that sacrifice is to give up your own life by way of His.
Nobody can OBEY God. ONLY Christ could obey (all others have failed). Jesus has the copyright on OBEDIENCE to God.
God did NOT want to sacrifice His son, but because man would NOT obey His voice God had to do that which He NEVER intended in the first place.
Because He wanted obedience and NOT sacrifice.
Then why don't you obey.
It is written: "You've been told what is good and what the Lord requires of you , only to do what is right, love goodness and walk humbly with the Lord your God."
(Book Of Jn);
Truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.Truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. Flesh makes flesh, spirit makes spirit. Do not be surprised that I tell you, you must all be born from above.
The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
Everything that the Lord gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should lose nothing of what he gave me, but that I should raise it on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him possesses eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day.
Once you have the light keep faith in the light, and you will become a child of light.
Walk in the light once you have it or darkness will remain over you.
If you continue in my words, you are truly my disciple, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
If the son frees you ,you will truly be free.
The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to spread the truth.The Lords word is truth.
I have given you an example. What I have done that's what you must do, as the Lord sent me that's how I send you. Once you know all these things blessed will you be if you put them into practice.
it has always struck me as odd that god would have to kill his own son in order to things to be set in motion for us to all be saved, but why do that? if he is god, then why does he have to kill someone in order to save us? That just makes little sense to me, why use shame and intimidation to get people in line, to be good and take their money in order for people to go to heaven..sounds like social control through the use of a man made religion to keep things in "order" and people in their place, scared and giving all they have so they can escape the plagues of hell, um something is just so wrong with this!
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